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Post by robsacher on Aug 8, 2015 20:58:53 GMT -5
very well thought out response Sacher. I think every broker lets you margin mnkd. However it will only allow a certain % of your total margin ability. So if you have the ability to margin 20k the % is much different for mnkd bc of volatility and margin call being more likely Mikemilli you are right about using margin and them loaning your shares. Small print terms and conditions no one reads Scottrade will not allow MNKD shares to be bought on margin.
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Post by robsacher on Aug 8, 2015 21:13:44 GMT -5
robsacher... I'm a bit more concerned about the insurance issue than you seem to be. Your point #3 almost makes it seem like there is simply a waiting period and therefore nothing to worry about. Toujeo has certainly made much faster progress with formulary access. Yes, it is similar to Lantus, but one might have assumed in the current context of payers favoring generics that payers would have preferred sticking with Lantus as their treatment of choice so that when the biosimilar hits the market they could take advantage of discounted pricing. So through there pricing of Toujeo and their marketing effort SNY has gotten it on formulary much quicker than a year. We also know that time alone doesn't guarantee good placement as there are many formulary that have Novolog tier 2 or better but not Humalog... or vice versa. With the high price of Afrezza I wouldn't think payers would start covering it well even after a year. Some have said that the high price is simply part of the negotiation, but if that were the case why were the same tactics not needed for Toujeo. I know I'm unlikely to get it, but I'd sure like to hear MNKD address the formulary issue head on. SNY is already highlighting formulary acceptance of Toujeo in their presentations. This is an important issue for investors. I'm not worried about insurance but I do acknowledge that the issue is one of the four foundations associated with the strength of a shorting thesis. But, I feel very confident in Sanofi knowing their business and in having the experience to make the right decisions. I firmly support the way Sanofi is playing their hand, so far. Also, comparing Toujeo to Afrezza is somewhat unfair. The wind is more likely blowing Toujeo forward while it is mostly headwind for Afrezza, at this point. Toujeo is riding on Lantus's coattails while Afrezza is a brand new paradigm. The tactic involved in making Afrezza more expensive now in order to get it into Tier 2 in exchange for a reduction in its cost is commonplace in the pharmaceutical industry. While an improvement in performance but no new paradigm shifter, Toujeo is already assured of Tier 2 status, therefore there is no need to raise the price on Toujeo. Afrezza is a whole other story.
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Post by robsacher on Aug 8, 2015 21:20:08 GMT -5
Hence, my deepest worry. With the number of shorts outstanding there must be many many many longs loaning their shares. Who are the largest holders of Mannkind stock? Wouldn't that be Al Mann and other officers of the company? Clearly, they are lending their shares in order to hedge these low stock prices. I understand they need to recoup costs as well... But come on! Anyone with $100,000 can loan their shares out for shorting. I'm convinced that every Tom, Dick, and Harry investor is doing so. But, I would be surprised if Al Mann was included. But, I am often surprised at things I discover in this world…
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Post by afrizzle on Aug 9, 2015 7:30:12 GMT -5
Snip... This event repeated itself the next 3 nights. I wanted more, I called up target to refill my prescription, I get to target 2-3 days after calling since they had to order the insulin. The pharmacist told me it would be $840 dollars , holy shit! I asked him if my insurance covered any of it, his response was yes ... Without insurance it would have been about $1400-1500. At that point I said, thanks but no thanks, I make a decent wage but I can't justify paying 10x as much for this insulin. So, the whole point to this is, that Afrezza works well. But the company and the product won't sell until they lower the prices or until they get the insurance companies to cover a larger portion. Oh btw the card that sanofi gives to make sure your copay does not exceed $30 is only good for the first $125, so my out of pocket would have been about $715... Still too much! When my insurance company brings the cost down to a reasonable amount I'll definitely be on board, but until then I'm on the sideline. I hope this helped a few of my fellow investors make a decision on whether to buy or sell MNKD. I made my decision recently, i bought some this week on the dip. Cheers! I'm still trying to sort out the math of how many boxes would have been 1400 - 1500 a month, in the without insurance scenario? I'm not diabetic but I did ask my doctor for a script for a souvineer box. I paid $296 at Walgreens without insurance for 90. Now this was before the 12 unit came out, but my understanding is the 12 unit product is the same price. If you are using 5 times the insulin I understand but I'd also think there would be a discount for multiple boxes/month
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Post by kball on Aug 9, 2015 7:58:46 GMT -5
Snip#1... Still too much! When my insurance company brings the cost down to a reasonable amount I'll definitely be on board, but until then I'm on the sideline. I hope this helped a few of my fellow investors make a decision on whether to buy or sell MNKD. I made my decision recently, i bought some this week on the dip. Cheers! Snip #2... I'm not diabetic but I did ask my doctor for a script for a souvineer box. I paid $296 at Walgreens without insurance for 90. Frizzle, Wow. Not diabetic, but getting a script? Like scripts aren't low enough already, now i have to calculate what % of new ones are going not to patients, but non-diabetic collectors?? Will you refill it every 30 days please? Maybe for the first year at least?
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Post by liane on Aug 9, 2015 8:11:23 GMT -5
I'm surprised a physician would give you an Rx. Also, you might not want it in your medical record as being associated with diabetes, it can raise insurance rates.
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Post by newmnkdinvestor on Aug 9, 2015 10:56:47 GMT -5
very well thought out response Sacher. I think every broker lets you margin mnkd. However it will only allow a certain % of your total margin ability. So if you have the ability to margin 20k the % is much different for mnkd bc of volatility and margin call being more likely Mikemilli you are right about using margin and them loaning your shares. Small print terms and conditions no one reads Scottrade will not allow MNKD shares to be bought on margin. Wow I didn't know that.
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Post by afrizzle on Aug 9, 2015 11:46:00 GMT -5
I'm surprised a physician would give you an Rx. Also, you might not want it in your medical record as being associated with diabetes, it can raise insurance rates. I did promise I'd not use it of course, and I asked for a hand written script so I could take it to a pharmacy and pay cash. I didnt think it would be ethical to ask the insurance company to pay and I didn't want it on my medical history. My point of the post was to try to better understand the cost people are being asked to pay. The OP, in the first post is taking about 800/month with and 1500 without insurance. This seems to be a significant barrier to script growth if a common occurrence I had understood that pricing was to be approximately comparable to the competition and this seems counter to that strategy. I'd think I'd rather see them undercut the market by a few points to eliminate the excuse, then push the price where they need it to be later after they've built a base. Of course, I readily admit I've no experience in pharma pricing strategies.
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Post by peppy on Aug 9, 2015 11:57:58 GMT -5
Rob, I like what you had to say on your post on page three. Regarding this quote: I'm possibly being most speculative on this point but it could be possible that a great number of T1s are simply used to injections and will not find a need to change. I saw a number of those sentiments written in various diabetes forums when Afrezza first entered the market last february. However, I think this may be an example of old dogs not wanting to learn new tricks.
Reply: I do not believe it. I do believe there are a great number of T1's that do not know there is an option.
Human beings are animals. We are trainable. Trained to stick a needle in several times a day to live. I wonder if they ever get used to it.
(PS: I tired the quote feature twice, I gave up.)
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Post by liane on Aug 9, 2015 12:06:13 GMT -5
peppy,
Go to the post you want to quote. In the upper right hand corner, hit the quote button. The post will come up in a box within a reply box. At this point, you can edit anything within the quote to highlight or delete or whatever. Then you can add your reply outside the quote box. Then hit "Create a Post" at the bottom right.
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Post by mannmade on Aug 9, 2015 12:56:39 GMT -5
Rob, I like what you had to say on your post on page three. Regarding this quote: I'm possibly being most speculative on this point but it could be possible that a great number of T1s are simply used to injections and will not find a need to change. I saw a number of those sentiments written in various diabetes forums when Afrezza first entered the market last february. However, I think this may be an example of old dogs not wanting to learn new tricks.
Reply: I do not believe it. I do believe there are a great number of T1's that do not know there is an option.
Human beings are animals. We are trainable. Trained to stick a needle in several times a day to live. I wonder if they ever get used to it.
(PS: I tired the quote feature twice, I gave up.)
I know this has been said many times before by posters on this Board, including myself, but not having to inject oneself is just icing on the cake or what I call a "cosmetic benefit," as the real benefit is better Hba1c, Lower FG, More time in zone (hence greatly slowing or stopping the progression of the disease, and the harsh life threatening damage it causes), better life style/ease of use, etc... No needles may be all Sanofi has to promote to sell for now, and so I believe until they can find a way to market the above benefits, (whether expanded label or testimonials from actual users) the shorts will retain control which is why they may not be going away anytime soon. I also believe that Afrezza will replace RAA's and become the accepted standard of care for those in need of prandial insulin as part of their treatment regime.
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perl
Newbie
Posts: 13
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Post by perl on Aug 10, 2015 13:36:25 GMT -5
Anyone with $100,000 can loan their shares out for shorting. I'm convinced that every Tom, Dick, and Harry investor is doing so. But, I would be surprised if Al Mann was included. But, I am often surprised at things I discover in this world… I am loaning my shares and will not stop. Why? Because I am sure I won't impact the current shorts game if I stop. There are many way more powerful boys out there who are happily loaning their shares and use proceeds to do whatever. I keep buying, because eventually this will stop, hopefully I can do it for the rest of this year and afterwards.
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Post by mannmade on Aug 10, 2015 14:36:40 GMT -5
One person, one vote... as the saying goes... whether your vote impacts the next Presidential election can be debated, but in this case I guess it depends on the number of shares you own... However, regardless if you own 1 share or a 1 million shares, I believe you should vote your conscious (or your pocketbook when legal...) This is a free country after all...
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Post by compound26 on Aug 12, 2015 13:44:09 GMT -5
Eric's tweet once again shows the importance of insurance coverage for Afrezza.
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