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Post by dictatorsaurus on Nov 12, 2015 15:19:01 GMT -5
TS can be an unlimited number of products. Afrezza is just one product. Hoping to hear about a partnership before the end of the year. I think that will be a major turning point for the company and will erase many doubts.
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Post by mindovermatter on Nov 12, 2015 16:50:53 GMT -5
Even if it does happen, it will probably not do much to the share price. A signed TS Partnership, you're kidding right ?? It depends on what the deal is and for what. Remember, the Afrezza deal was not well received by most and did not truly help the share price. Go look and see how the stock tanked right after the deal was announced on Aug 11, 2014. It was all downhill from there in general to where we now sit. Disappointing would not adequately explain where Mannkind is with Techsnosphere. There might be a lot of interest but if no one is willing to actually partner with Mannkind to bring something to market, then the company is most likely doomed unless Afrezza starts to get a foothold. And that brings yet another concern. Sanofi is having a problem with Toujeo gaining acceptance and if Matt Bendall is onto something with Tresiba being the optimal basal to go with Afrezza and not Toujeo, Sanofi will most like ditch Afrezza and use all its resources to try and resurrect Toujeo imo. That scenario again puts the screws to Mannkind. Maybe there is a white knight out there like Teva that will bail Mannkind out. Would Novo make a move? I dunno but Mannkind is radioactive right now. |
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Post by compound26 on Nov 12, 2015 17:00:25 GMT -5
A signed TS Partnership, you're kidding right ?? It depends on what the deal is and for what. Remember, the Afrezza deal was not well received by most and did not truly help the share price. Go look and see how the stock tanked right after the deal was announced on Aug 11, 2014. It was all downhill from there in general to where we now sit. Disappointing would not adequately explain where Mannkind is with Techsnosphere. There might be a lot of interest but if no one is willing to actually partner with Mannkind to bring something to market, then the company is most likely doomed unless Afrezza starts to get a foothold. And that brings yet another concern. Sanofi is having a problem with Toujeo gaining acceptance and if Matt Bendall is onto something with Tresiba being the optimal basal to go with Afrezza and not Toujeo, Sanofi will most like ditch Afrezza and use all its resources to try and resurrect Toujeo imo. That scenario again puts the screws to Mannkind. Maybe there is a white knight out there like Teva that will bail Mannkind out. Would Novo make a move? I dunno but Mannkind is radioactive right now. If Toujeo does not work well, it is because Tresiba is better product. And why would Sanofi ditch Afrezza if Afrezza works well with Tresiba. They are getting 65% profit from Afrezza. If they ditch Afrezza, they are getting none. If they ditch Afrezza, Novo can pick up Afrezza and make a combo of Tresiba+Afrezza. Wouldn't that put Sanofi in a much worse competitive position to defend its market share of Toujeo? |
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Post by mindovermatter on Nov 12, 2015 17:23:14 GMT -5
It depends on what the deal is and for what. Remember, the Afrezza deal was not well received by most and did not truly help the share price. Go look and see how the stock tanked right after the deal was announced on Aug 11, 2014. It was all downhill from there in general to where we now sit. Disappointing would not adequately explain where Mannkind is with Techsnosphere. There might be a lot of interest but if no one is willing to actually partner with Mannkind to bring something to market, then the company is most likely doomed unless Afrezza starts to get a foothold. And that brings yet another concern. Sanofi is having a problem with Toujeo gaining acceptance and if Matt Bendall is onto something with Tresiba being the optimal basal to go with Afrezza and not Toujeo, Sanofi will most like ditch Afrezza and use all its resources to try and resurrect Toujeo imo. That scenario again puts the screws to Mannkind. Maybe there is a white knight out there like Teva that will bail Mannkind out. Would Novo make a move? I dunno but Mannkind is radioactive right now. If Toujeo does not work well, it is because Tresiba is better product. And why would Sanofi ditch Afrezza if Afrezza works well with Tresiba. They are getting 65% profit from Afrezza. If they ditch Afrezza, they are getting none. If they ditch Afrezza, Novo can pick up Afrezza and make a combo of Tresiba+Afrezza. Wouldn't that put Sanofi in a much worse competitive position to defend its market share of Toujeo? Why? Evidence is showing that those using Afrezza need less basal. That's why. Unless Sanofi truly understands the game changing nature of Afrezza, and evidence seems to point that they are slow playing Afrezza, I don't see Sanofi sticking by Afrezza if sales don't pick up by 2Q of 2016. But that might be their plan to begin with. Only time will tell. |
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Post by cretin11 on Nov 12, 2015 17:32:07 GMT -5
If Toujeo does not work well, it is because Tresiba is better product. And why would Sanofi ditch Afrezza if Afrezza works well with Tresiba. They are getting 65% profit from Afrezza. If they ditch Afrezza, they are getting none. If they ditch Afrezza, Novo can pick up Afrezza and make a combo of Tresiba+Afrezza. Wouldn't that put Sanofi in a much worse competitive position to defend its market share of Toujeo? Why? Evidence is showing that those using Afrezza need less basal. That's why. Unless Sanofi truly understands the game changing nature of Afrezza, and evidence seems to point that they are slow playing Afrezza, I don't see Sanofi sticking by Afrezza if sales don't pick up by 2Q of 2016. But that might be their plan to begin with. Only time will tell. Why would Sanofi not understand the "game changing nature of Afrezza" as you accurately described it? Of course they understand all aspects of the drug, that's their business. |
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Post by rockstarrick on Nov 12, 2015 17:44:01 GMT -5
A signed TS Partnership, you're kidding right ?? It depends on what the deal is and for what. Remember, the Afrezza deal was not well received by most and did not truly help the share price. Go look and see how the stock tanked right after the deal was announced on Aug 11, 2014. It was all downhill from there in general to where we now sit. Disappointing would not adequately explain where Mannkind is with Techsnosphere. There might be a lot of interest but if no one is willing to actually partner with Mannkind to bring something to market, then the company is most likely doomed unless Afrezza starts to get a foothold. And that brings yet another concern. Sanofi is having a problem with Toujeo gaining acceptance and if Matt Bendall is onto something with Tresiba being the optimal basal to go with Afrezza and not Toujeo, Sanofi will most like ditch Afrezza and use all its resources to try and resurrect Toujeo imo. That scenario again puts the screws to Mannkind. Maybe there is a white knight out there like Teva that will bail Mannkind out. Would Novo make a move? I dunno but Mannkind is radioactive right now. I think anything that shows TS is coming will be beneficial to shareholders, and I have a different theory of what Sanofi will do if what Matt B and other sources are saying about Toujeo is true. If Toujeo is causing rapid insulin resistance, Afrezza may be the only hope for Toujeo. I've heard that PWD on both Toujeo and Afrezza are more insulin sensitive than those just using Toujeo. Then there's the time factor, I've heard that Toujeo doesn't quite make the 24 hours needed for a basal insulin, unlike Tresiba. Im not totally on the "Sanofi is sand bagging Afrezza" train yet, but I can see why people would be, if this is true, Sanofi could go from being a leader in Diabetic treatment, to the company that tried to snuff the best thing since sliced bread in the treatment of diabetes. PWD would verbally pulverize Sanofi on social media IMO. Im not sure Sanofi would want this, a very risky move. We won't have to wait long to find out, but I believe Sanofi will grab a gear and promote Afrezza, and I also believe the insurance issues and label are the reason for lackluster sales, not sand bagging. Good Luck |
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Post by mindovermatter on Nov 12, 2015 17:45:48 GMT -5
Why? Evidence is showing that those using Afrezza need less basal. That's why. Unless Sanofi truly understands the game changing nature of Afrezza, and evidence seems to point that they are slow playing Afrezza, I don't see Sanofi sticking by Afrezza if sales don't pick up by 2Q of 2016. But that might be their plan to begin with. Only time will tell. Why would Sanofi not understand the "game changing nature of Afrezza" as you accurately described it? Of course they understand all aspects of the drug, that's their business. I am making the assumption that Sanofi knows that Afrezza works so well that it will do irreparable damage to their big boy diabetes drugs that they are relying to be their cash cow. But maybe with more evidence will convince Sanofi to finally pony up and pay a premium for Afrezza after all. Like I said, time will tell. |
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Post by cretin11 on Nov 12, 2015 17:52:52 GMT -5
Why would Sanofi not understand the "game changing nature of Afrezza" as you accurately described it? Of course they understand all aspects of the drug, that's their business. I am making the assumption that Sanofi knows that Afrezza works so well that it will do irreparable damage to their big boy diabetes drugs that they are relying to be their cash cow. But maybe with more evidence will convince Sanofi to finally pony up and pay a premium for Afrezza after all. Like I said, time will tell. So we agree that of course Sanofi knows Afrezza works extremely well, a game changer as you said. That part I follow, but the rest of your logic escapes me. Afrezza works so well that Sanofi is holding it back, rather than cashing in on it, seems to be your assumption. Doesn't seem to make sense. |
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Post by rockstarrick on Nov 12, 2015 17:56:56 GMT -5
If Toujeo does not work well, it is because Tresiba is better product. And why would Sanofi ditch Afrezza if Afrezza works well with Tresiba. They are getting 65% profit from Afrezza. If they ditch Afrezza, they are getting none. If they ditch Afrezza, Novo can pick up Afrezza and make a combo of Tresiba+Afrezza. Wouldn't that put Sanofi in a much worse competitive position to defend its market share of Toujeo? Why? Evidence is showing that those using Afrezza need less basal. That's why. Unless Sanofi truly understands the game changing nature of Afrezza, and evidence seems to point that they are slow playing Afrezza, I don't see Sanofi sticking by Afrezza if sales don't pick up by 2Q of 2016. But that might be their plan to begin with. Only time will tell. Sanofi understands everything about Afrezza imo, and they're not stupid. Like I said, we won't have long to wait to put this to rest. You may be right, but for now, I highly doubt it. |
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Post by brentie on Nov 12, 2015 17:58:43 GMT -5
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Post by compound26 on Nov 12, 2015 18:05:19 GMT -5
Why? Evidence is showing that those using Afrezza need less basal. That's why. Unless Sanofi truly understands the game changing nature of Afrezza, and evidence seems to point that they are slow playing Afrezza, I don't see Sanofi sticking by Afrezza if sales don't pick up by 2Q of 2016. But that might be their plan to begin with. Only time will tell. Sanofi understands everything about Afrezza imo, and they're not stupid. Like I said, we won't have long to wait to put this to rest. You may be right, but for now, I highly doubt it. I agree that Sanofi must have been doing something in the background. The total expenses on the JV end is around $45 million per quarter. That's some serious money. If Sanofi is just putting minimum efforts I would not think Mannkind would agree to charge the JV $45 million per quarter. |
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Post by bioexec25 on Nov 12, 2015 18:24:28 GMT -5
Why? Evidence is showing that those using Afrezza need less basal. That's why. Unless Sanofi truly understands the game changing nature of Afrezza, and evidence seems to point that they are slow playing Afrezza, I don't see Sanofi sticking by Afrezza if sales don't pick up by 2Q of 2016. But that might be their plan to begin with. Only time will tell. Sanofi understands everything about Afrezza imo, and they're not stupid. Like I said, we won't have long to wait to put this to rest. You may be right, but for now, I highly doubt it. I still go back to the key variable for me which is the CEO change at Sny. Look everything about Mnkd is strategic & transformative from Afrezza to future TS applications. I just had this conversation offline, I believe Sny is playing Mnkd and please don't take that the wrong way. It's business. They have the leverage on the deal right now. We don't know if Sny really gets it and even if they do they want to wait for the ramp versus the budget need for a paradigm shift. We know they lost their visionary CEO over what seems to be political, gov't regs, Boston location and everything but what should really matter. I remember Viehbacher visiting Southern Cal. I remember him mentioning Mnkd. I can't say I've ever heard Brandicourt say squat about Mnkd. So I think he allows them to spend the 2015 budget and will reassess after Jan 1, 2016. Further, recently, I believe Sny probably didn't know about TASE at least the details. Most distribution agreements don't get into such things unless specifically defined. Mnkd is working out funding independent of big brother imo. Further Mnkd IS THE ONE who is likely thinking about getting out. I think they see a repeat of what Sny and other massive pharma have done in the past with these complicated ramps coupled with blending with their existing portfolios. There are options, Tresiba is one we talk about but it cannot be the only option. At the end of the day, for a company who earns most of its diabetes franchise money from basil insulin, it is not a leap to say they will be extremely conservative regarding a therapeutic that cuts into that revenue while having its own baggage in ramping a paradigm shift. Just plain logic to me. |
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Post by rockstarrick on Nov 12, 2015 18:42:40 GMT -5
Sanofi understands everything about Afrezza imo, and they're not stupid. Like I said, we won't have long to wait to put this to rest. You may be right, but for now, I highly doubt it. I agree that Sanofi must have been doing something in the background. The total expenses on the JV end is around $45 million per quarter. That's some serious money. If Sanofi is just putting minimum efforts I would not think Mannkind would agree to charge the JV $45 million per quarter. Yes, I love the pic too. Classic |
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Post by parrerob on Nov 12, 2015 19:12:11 GMT -5
Guys.... only to say that the first messagge was totally right.
A TS partner has been announced to come and there are no thread.
Here discussion has become about Sny and the JV.
I Think we all have been shocked too much recently
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Post by kbrion77 on Nov 12, 2015 19:18:17 GMT -5
www.reuters.com/article/2010/05/12/us-regeneron-exclusive-idUSTRE64B37U20100512#QIWOQA7A7jEivaV8.97Sorry if this doesn't belong here but it's one of my favorite articles to reread when thinking about long term investing. Mannkind is a LONG way away but REGN was still a big gamble back in 2010. "The cycle is getting to be in full swing," said Chief Executive Leonard Schleifer. "We need a big hit on one of these drugs and then I think the world will start to pay a lot more attention to our pipeline" of new medicines. I hope the above quote holds the same for Afrezza and Mannkind here shortly.
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