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Post by jurystillout on Nov 18, 2015 14:01:24 GMT -5
Sorry, I can NOT see how this isn't direct competition with MNKD and Technosphere. It is. The wise have eyes. It also looks like a patent infringement although MNKD may be so dependent and broke that it can't pursue SNY. This situation seems to get sadder by the day. I am long and underwater like so many here. What the patent is for, is a delivery device. So what if SNY wants to put affreza or any other technosphere product in it, in fact maybe it will even be better than the current device, a unit with adjustable dosing like a pen would seem to be a positive. Our money is in the medication not the plastic holder. I really think this is very good news, and it shows SNY's interest in the inhalable market.
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Post by jeremg on Nov 18, 2015 14:09:17 GMT -5
Sorry, I can NOT see how this isn't direct competition with MNKD and Technosphere. It is. The wise have eyes. It also looks like a patent infringement although MNKD may be so dependent and broke that it can't pursue SNY. This situation seems to get sadder by the day. I am long and underwater like so many here. As @jurystillout noted, this can be used with Technosphere. It's not MNKD's delivery device - dreamboat - which is so valuable, it's Technosphere, the actual drug delivery molecule.
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Post by EveningOfTheDay on Nov 18, 2015 14:13:04 GMT -5
For some reason I do not seem to be able to open the link. I have tried to click on it, copy, etc, but nothing seems to work. However, if as Cathode is saying (from his post) "The patent is really for the metering system." then this is probably not in direct competition with Afrezza but simply a new improved delivery system. Actually it could possibly explain why Al Mann, even though he was stopped by Matt from detailing his comment, said that Sanofi had access to Mankind's processes.
In my opinion, anybody thinking this is direct competition to Afrezza is really not understanding the difference between the delivery device, the dreamboat, and Afrezza, the powdered form of insulin.
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Post by EveningOfTheDay on Nov 18, 2015 14:14:37 GMT -5
Looks like Jurystillout beat me to the finish line.
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Post by peppy on Nov 18, 2015 14:18:21 GMT -5
Sorry, I can NOT see how this isn't direct competition with MNKD and Technosphere. It is. The wise have eyes. It also looks like a patent infringement although MNKD may be so dependent and broke that it can't pursue SNY. This situation seems to get sadder by the day. I am long and underwater like so many here. I considered your words. When MNKD changed their afrezza inhaler in 2thousand something, new testing and FDA data was required. What ever medication will be used in this inhaler, will need testing was my thought. Another study. www.fda.gov/downloads/advisorycommittees/committeesmeetingmaterials/drugs/endocrinologicandmetabolicdrugsadvisorycommittee/ucm390865.pdf pg 34 excerpt: Two new phase 1 trials evaluating multiple-dose TI Gen2 administration (Trial 176) and comparing insulin exposure and response following administration of TI using the Gen2 inhaler versus sc RAA (Trial 177).
Interesting that sanofi has patented this inhaler.
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Post by cathode on Nov 18, 2015 14:35:36 GMT -5
Sorry, I can NOT see how this isn't direct competition with MNKD and Technosphere. It is. The wise have eyes. It also looks like a patent infringement although MNKD may be so dependent and broke that it can't pursue SNY. This situation seems to get sadder by the day. I am long and underwater like so many here. I don't think it looks anything like patent infringement on MNKD's IP. What are you basing that off? Seriously, this is one of the lowest quality posts I have encountered. Not retracting my other statements, but I think it is really the system by which the drug is metered out. Not necessarily the way in which a user selects how much drug to be administered. Also the patent points to lots of other medicants that could be used in this inhaler. I haven't seen this many seals since I went to the aquarium!
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Post by wmdhunt on Nov 18, 2015 15:27:20 GMT -5
Perhaps this is an indication that SNY will buy MNKD and use technosphere/it's own inhaler, etc. images3.freshpatents.com/pdf/US20150297842A1.pdf
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Post by navpoon on Nov 18, 2015 16:50:15 GMT -5
Does anyone remember when Al Slipped and said that they sold the process to Sanofi? Maybe the sale will involve the process to build the Afrezza capsules that can be used in this inhaler? This dreamboat device is meant to be used in many other medications therefore Mannkind is probably unwilling to part with the inhaler? i.e. use dreamboat for the pain delivery formulation and pulmonary hypertension.
The inhaler device is separate from the the inert particle formulation and manufacturing. If this is the case then SNY would need the inhaler to be FDA approved and tested before a buyout would even be considered. Wonder if Al Mann is selling the formulation for a certain price but if they are to include the inhaler the price goes way up as that is his delivery for all other inhaled medications.
Just thinking out loud...
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Post by peppy on Nov 18, 2015 16:58:16 GMT -5
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Post by wmdhunt on Nov 18, 2015 18:09:12 GMT -5
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Post by bioexec25 on Nov 18, 2015 18:26:16 GMT -5
I seem to recall that years ago, when Exubera was approved, many of the big pharmaceutical companies IMMEDIATELY began developing their own programs for inhaled meds. Recognizing the potential, they did not want to get left behind. This time around, with Afrezza, the BPs are being a little more cautious, but I see Sanofi's interest in developing inhaled medications to be confirmation that they recognize how disruptive this technology might become. Of course, they have data that no other BP has because of Afrezza. This comment I agree with mnholdem. It is a confirmation of the approach. If they did continue, perhaps it's just to use a modified version with google or something. I highly doubt it was just to replicate to cut mannkind out of the picture but as many I am more skeptical today than in the past. But all in all I go positive on this one, imitation is the best form of flattery, and this WAS or IS (no idea) likely an attempt to improve the technology for other integration or uses.
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Post by mssciguy on Nov 18, 2015 18:39:49 GMT -5
I seem to recall that years ago, when Exubera was approved, many of the big pharmaceutical companies IMMEDIATELY began developing their own programs for inhaled meds. Recognizing the potential, they did not want to get left behind. This time around, with Afrezza, the BPs are being a little more cautious, but I see Sanofi's interest in developing inhaled medications to be confirmation that they recognize how disruptive this technology might become. Of course, they have data that no other BP has because of Afrezza. This comment I agree with mnholdem. It is a confirmation of the approach. If they did continue, perhaps it's just to use a modified version with google or something. I highly doubt it was just to replicate to cut mannkind out of the picture but as many I am more skeptical today than in the past. But all in all I go positive on this one, imitation is the best form of flattery, and this WAS or IS (no idea) likely an attempt to improve the technology for other integration or uses. Ironically, some of the science of this technology came from fine particle air pollution (Not the soluble therapeutic variety) that are present in air pollution. It has been determined over the past few decades that these behave just like gases, hence the potential for using fine particles for medicine. There certainly are other companies and start ups with one or more formulations and/or devices in this area. The wolf is always at the door mnkd.proboards.com/thread/3975/particle-inhalation-companies-liquidia?page=1&scrollTo=47385
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Post by rockstarrick on Nov 18, 2015 21:19:42 GMT -5
Sorry, I can NOT see how this isn't direct competition with MNKD and Technosphere. It is. The wise have eyes. It also looks like a patent infringement although MNKD may be so dependent and broke that it can't pursue SNY. This situation seems to get sadder by the day. I am long and underwater like so many here. I considered your words. When MNKD changed their afrezza inhaler in 2thousand something, new testing and FDA data was required. What ever medication will be used in this inhaler, will need testing was my thought. Another study. www.fda.gov/downloads/advisorycommittees/committeesmeetingmaterials/drugs/endocrinologicandmetabolicdrugsadvisorycommittee/ucm390865.pdf pg 34 excerpt: Two new phase 1 trials evaluating multiple-dose TI Gen2 administration (Trial 176) and comparing insulin exposure and response following administration of TI using the Gen2 inhaler versus sc RAA (Trial 177).
Interesting that sanofi has patented this inhaler.
I wonder if this is why MNKD didn't renew the patent for the Cricket Inhaler ?? Some claimed it was because of the name Cricket and the fact there was a disposable lighter named Cricket.
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Post by cathode on Nov 18, 2015 22:20:36 GMT -5
I wonder if this is why MNKD didn't renew the patent for the Cricket Inhaler ?? Some claimed it was because of the name Cricket and the fact there was a disposable lighter named Cricket. I always understood the Cricket to be for single-use. SNY's patent certainly suggests that it is for multiple uses. I think this is a SNY product through and through.
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Post by mnholdem on Nov 18, 2015 22:35:23 GMT -5
There was a rumor going around awhile ago that it was actually Sanofi that convinced Al to change the original inhaler to the Gen2 (DreamBoat). That rumor had Sanofi working in the background, planning to become the partner (acquirer?) for this product.
I'm less interested in the past than I am in the future. If Sanofi is planning to develop an adjustable-dose inhaler for use with Afrezza, that could break through the perception of many endocrinologists that the cartridge-based system is not as accurate as syringes/pens. It's total BS, but perceptions can create formidable roadblocks to acceptance.
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*** TIN HAT ALERT ***
Of course, this only reinforces my belief that Sanofi is planning to acquire all patents and manufacturing rights related to Afrezza, then pay MannKind a future licensing fee for the right to use Technosphere in the manufacturing of Afrezza. Additional licenses would need to be paid for other API, such as a GLP-1 diabetes drug, although that particular one may be part of the package.
For all we know, those crafty Frenchmen may even be interested in developing inhalable drugs for other diseases.
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