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Post by peppy on Nov 22, 2015 8:30:43 GMT -5
FYI - I work for a mail order pharmacy that does business with all 50 states and Puerto Rico/Virgin Islands. If any one would ever like to know numbers related to AWP, AAC, etc or copays or number of Rx's dispensed over specific time period versus another product, let me know. Some times I get bored at work and start doing random searches on products that interest me; that it is, when I am not day-dreaming about how awesome it would be if Afrezza had the numbers Lantus has had. Also, my gf who is also a pharmacist at a retail pharmacy, was just visited by a Afrezza drug rep! THEY DO EXIST!!! The question I would have should be straight forward? first- With no health insurance. Have a prescription for; (www.afrezzapro.com/dosing-configurations)
- Patients receive 60x4U + 30x8U combination boxes.
How much is the bill?
second- a type one diabetic. People diagnosed with type 1 diabetes usually start with two injections of insulin per day of two different types of insulin and generally progress to three or four injections per day of insulin of different types. The types of insulin used depend on their blood glucose levels. Studies have shown that three or four injections of insulin a day give the best blood glucose control and can prevent or delay the eye, kidney, and nerve damage caused by diabetes. - See more at: www.diabetes.org/living-with-diabetes/treatment-and-care/medication/insulin/insulin-routines.html#sthash.W6UtI9FV.dpuf ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ short acting I do not have much to go on here. I am not a type 1 diabetic. I may need help. What is the Bill for a vial of Apidra no insurance? What is the bill for Apidra •3 mL SoloStar prefilled pen? The total daily insulin requirement may vary and is usually between 0.5 to 1 Unit/kg/day. products.sanofi.us/apidra/apidra.html
I weight 170 pounds or 77 kg. so correct me when wrong... 34 to 77 units per day? (Look at the tails: screencast.com/t/pJPex48U Matt must be happy) Injection: 100 units/mL insulin glargine is available as: • 10 mL vials (3) • 3 mL SoloStar prefilled pen (3) APIDRA 100 units per mL (U-100) is available as: (products.sanofi.us/apidra/apidra.html) Open (In-Use) Vial: (Opened vials, whether or not refrigerated, must be used within 28 days. If refrigeration is not possible, the open vial in use can be kept unrefrigerated for up to 28 days away from direct heat and light, as long as the temperature is not greater than 77°F (25°C). The opened (in-use) SoloStar should NOT be refrigerated but should be kept below 77°F (25°C) away from direct heat and light. The opened (in-use) SoloStar kept at room temperature must be discarded after 28 days.) APIDRA 100 units per mL •10 mL vials •3 mL SoloStar prefilled pen
-------------------------------------------------- Lantus - 100 Units/mL (www.lantus.com/hcp) 3 ml pens
Initiation of LANTUS Therapy Type 1 Diabetes: • In patients with type 1 diabetes, LANTUS must be used concomitantly with short-acting insulin.The recommended starting dose of LANTUS in patients with type 1 diabetes should be approximately one-third of the total daily insulin requirements. Short-acting, premeal insulin should be used to satisfy the remainder of the daily insulin requirements.
NO insurance, what is the bill for Lantus 100 units/ml * 3 pens? --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- This information would help me see what is going on pricing wise, I think. And oh thank you.
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Post by peppy on Nov 22, 2015 9:03:15 GMT -5
Thoughts on stories: Consider, the story spread around Afrezza priced higher as a negotiating tactic. Consider, yah, right. Consider what has happened at this pricing. Consider if that was the plan. Grrrr.
Added: Warning a totally inappropriate statement. If Sanofi shorted the announcement, the deal for them probably a wash. Grrrrr screencast.com/t/U9wki2cT0tZ
I seem to be on my high horse this morning: there is plenty of money out there floating around starving for a way to make money on there money. Give me a break. Afrezza, non inferior priced right, oh thanks sanofi for the prep work. hmmm
We do have the FDA mandated additional follow up studies
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Post by rrtzmd on Nov 22, 2015 10:47:11 GMT -5
FYI - I work for a mail order pharmacy that does business with all 50 states and Puerto Rico/Virgin Islands. If any one would ever like to know numbers related to AWP, AAC, etc or copays or number of Rx's dispensed over specific time period versus another product, let me know. Some times I get bored at work and start doing random searches on products that interest me; that it is, when I am not day-dreaming about how awesome it would be if Afrezza had the numbers Lantus has had. Also, my gf who is also a pharmacist at a retail pharmacy, was just visited by a Afrezza drug rep! THEY DO EXIST!!! The question I would have should be straight forward? first- With no health insurance. Have a prescription for; (www.afrezzapro.com/dosing-configurations)
- Patients receive 60x4U + 30x8U combination boxes.
How much is the bill?
second- a type one diabetic. People diagnosed with type 1 diabetes usually start with two injections of insulin per day of two different types of insulin and generally progress to three or four injections per day of insulin of different types. The types of insulin used depend on their blood glucose levels. Studies have shown that three or four injections of insulin a day give the best blood glucose control and can prevent or delay the eye, kidney, and nerve damage caused by diabetes. - See more at: www.diabetes.org/living-with-diabetes/treatment-and-care/medication/insulin/insulin-routines.html#sthash.W6UtI9FV.dpuf ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ short acting I do not have much to go on here. I am not a type 1 diabetic. I may need help. What is the Bill for a vial of Apidra no insurance? What is the bill for Apidra •3 mL SoloStar prefilled pen? The total daily insulin requirement may vary and is usually between 0.5 to 1 Unit/kg/day. products.sanofi.us/apidra/apidra.html
I weight 170 pounds or 77 kg. so correct me when wrong... 34 to 77 units per day? (Look at the tails: screencast.com/t/pJPex48U Matt must be happy) Injection: 100 units/mL insulin glargine is available as: • 10 mL vials (3) • 3 mL SoloStar prefilled pen (3) APIDRA 100 units per mL (U-100) is available as: (products.sanofi.us/apidra/apidra.html) Open (In-Use) Vial: (Opened vials, whether or not refrigerated, must be used within 28 days. If refrigeration is not possible, the open vial in use can be kept unrefrigerated for up to 28 days away from direct heat and light, as long as the temperature is not greater than 77°F (25°C). The opened (in-use) SoloStar should NOT be refrigerated but should be kept below 77°F (25°C) away from direct heat and light. The opened (in-use) SoloStar kept at room temperature must be discarded after 28 days.) APIDRA 100 units per mL •10 mL vials •3 mL SoloStar prefilled pen
-------------------------------------------------- Lantus - 100 Units/mL (www.lantus.com/hcp) 3 ml pens
Initiation of LANTUS Therapy Type 1 Diabetes: • In patients with type 1 diabetes, LANTUS must be used concomitantly with short-acting insulin.The recommended starting dose of LANTUS in patients with type 1 diabetes should be approximately one-third of the total daily insulin requirements. Short-acting, premeal insulin should be used to satisfy the remainder of the daily insulin requirements.
NO insurance, what is the bill for Lantus 100 units/ml * 3 pens? ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This is a link to the Anthem "find covered drugs" page: provides estimates of annual costsIt not only tells you whether a drug is covered but also provides an estimate of the average annual cost for a specific dose. For the afrezza 4U/8U box that you describe, one each month costs $4,374.12 annually. One 100 cc vial of apidra per month would cost $1,406.28 annually. Five 3 cc apidra solostar pens per month costs $551 annually. For lantus, five 3 cc solostar pens costs $929.52 annually. Basic rules for dosing insulin: calculating insulin doseWith weight of 177 lbs, the estimate is 44U per day. Initially this is divided 50% slow/50% RAA, and then is adjusted according to patient response and usually tends towards an eventual 70/30 split.
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Post by peppy on Nov 22, 2015 10:55:55 GMT -5
so afrezza is 3 times the price of apidra. screencast.com/t/wtDIwNgxhY0
I suppose it would be a ditto of some kind for the type two's. metformin and the second drug of choice, then the basal. if they are 200 a month together for the orals? afrezza 20 times the price?
plum out of luck type two pricing, they have pills for that ay?
hmmmm, that's a hard egg screencast.com/t/9TqBdHfSGVw
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Post by rrtzmd on Nov 22, 2015 11:13:19 GMT -5
Roughly, yes. I mentioned in a previous post up above how comparison is made difficult by afrezza being dosed in cartridges plus the reports of higher dosages being required to match the diabetic's previous dose of lispro as well as the sometimes required additional dose 1-2 hours after a meal in order to cope with late digesting carbs. One frustrating thing is that no one is reporting their actual cartridge usage -- i.e. keeping track of what they started with and how it is changing. Consequently, there's no way to estimate the average cartridge consumption, and that will be an important factor in how insurance companies make their decision.
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Post by peppy on Nov 22, 2015 11:18:04 GMT -5
Roughly, yes. I mentioned in a previous post up above how comparison is made difficult by afrezza being dosed in cartridges plus the reports of higher dosages being required to match the diabetic's previous dose of lispro as well as the sometimes required additional dose 1-2 hours after a meal in order to cope with late digesting carbs. One frustrating thing is that no one is reporting their actual cartridge usage -- i.e. keeping track of what they started with and how it is changing. Consequently, there's no way to estimate the average cartridge consumption, and that will be an important factor in how insurance companies make their decision. they are type one's they are used to lower carbs. listen to matt, he can finally eat. he knows the cartridges he has. no one tells a type one how to dose, because they all know we are stupid. let's keep it real. it's not like there are a bunch of type two's using it, and dosing up an food hoopla.
Added, but yes a few spares would be nice to have, like gold in a drawer.
so there it is: fast acting $4,374.12 annually afrezza $1,406.28 annually apidra
(no way are those price differences going to work in Europe.) label improvements we have to work with what we have.
That is the war screencast.com/t/wtDIwNgxhY0 screencast.com/t/9TqBdHfSGVw
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Post by jeremg on Nov 22, 2015 11:53:57 GMT -5
Roughly, yes. I mentioned in a previous post up above how comparison is made difficult by afrezza being dosed in cartridges plus the reports of higher dosages being required to match the diabetic's previous dose of lispro as well as the sometimes required additional dose 1-2 hours after a meal in order to cope with late digesting carbs. One frustrating thing is that no one is reporting their actual cartridge usage -- i.e. keeping track of what they started with and how it is changing. Consequently, there's no way to estimate the average cartridge consumption, and that will be an important factor in how insurance companies make their decision. they are type one's they are used to lower carbs. listen to matt, he can finally eat. he knows the cartridges he has. no one tells a type one how to dose, because they all know we are stupid. let's keep it real. it's not like there are a bunch of type two's using it, and dosing up an food hoopla.
Added, but yes a few spares would be nice to have, like gold in a drawer.
so there it is: fast acting $4,374.12 annually afrezza $1,406.28 annually apidra
(no way are those price differences going to work in Europe.) label improvements we have to work with what we have.
That is the war screencast.com/t/wtDIwNgxhY0 screencast.com/t/9TqBdHfSGVw
That is staggering. I have known many, my parents included, who suffered with chronic health conditions and despite being very well off were completely unwilling to pay for a prescription that cost them $80/refill instead of their usual $35/co pay, I can only imagine those who are not well off would be both unwilling AND unable to even consider Afrezza at this price point. With those numbers SNY isn't even trying to sell Afrezza, given the "noninferior" [not soon to change] and the fact that Afrezza has a novel ROA which makes many nervous [abouy long term safety], it should be priced at no more than a 20% premium to existing meds with plentiful discounts to get diabetics on board. We are so far off from this being a fair race, it's hard not to believe the game is rigged at this point.
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Post by peppy on Nov 22, 2015 12:09:51 GMT -5
they are type one's they are used to lower carbs. listen to matt, he can finally eat. he knows the cartridges he has. no one tells a type one how to dose, because they all know we are stupid. let's keep it real. it's not like there are a bunch of type two's using it, and dosing up an food hoopla.
Added, but yes a few spares would be nice to have, like gold in a drawer.
so there it is: fast acting $4,374.12 annually afrezza $1,406.28 annually apidra
(no way are those price differences going to work in Europe.) label improvements we have to work with what we have.
That is the war screencast.com/t/wtDIwNgxhY0 screencast.com/t/9TqBdHfSGVw
That is staggering. I have known many, my parents included, who suffered with chronic health conditions and despite being very well off were completely unwilling to pay for a prescription that cost them $80/refill instead of their usual $35/co pay, I can only imagine those who are not well off would be both unwilling AND unable to even consider Afrezza at this price point. With those numbers SNY isn't even trying to sell Afrezza, given the "noninferior" [not soon to change] and the fact that Afrezza has a novel ROA which makes many nervous [abouy long term safety], it should be priced at no more than a 20% premium to existing meds with plentiful discounts to get diabetics on board. We are so far off from this being a fair race, it's hard not to believe the game is rigged at this point. Yeah, I had no clue either. hehe, what's the problem here. So, if I have the story correct, the Mannkind goal is to get technosphere insulin available. Mann and associates know the only way to do that is to get it cost competitive. That's their problem.... what is their plan. They were not born yesterday. they know the industry. we have the insulin, plenty of money out there... when not being sabotaged, what is the plan?
(A half price sale takes the afrezza yearly price to $2187) screencast.com/t/lfvJnQwPlF5H
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Post by jeremg on Nov 22, 2015 12:41:05 GMT -5
peppy if only Afrezza could follow MNKD's lead and halve in price in a very short period of time. I can't help but think MNKD's PPS is negatively correlated with Afrezza's price, that's not how business revenue is supposed to work...? Whacky world we live in.
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Post by peppy on Nov 22, 2015 13:50:01 GMT -5
MannKind did say that the price would be much closer (+10%) to RAA pens, but Sanofi has priced it much higher, maybe as a bargaining chip with insurance companies. It also turns out to be an imperfect comparison because of very different dosing protocols. That being said, Afrezza does not seem to be very expensive to manufacture and gross margins are more than ample. I remember Al saying that, at a press conference the first ones after approval? Vaguely? A half price sale would be close to what was anticipated if that is the case.
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Post by stevil on Nov 22, 2015 14:59:41 GMT -5
This tells me it's clearly SNY that doesn't want to get Afrezza covered. They think it's worth likely twice the amount insurance companies will want to pay for it.
Insurance companies have the leverage right now. They don't need Afrezza. Afrezza needs them...
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Post by peppy on Nov 22, 2015 15:14:11 GMT -5
I am in a bit of shock. The question is why price it here? 65% of nothing. Approximately 1.25 million American children and adults have type 1 diabetes. - See more at: www.diabetes.org/diabetes-basics/statistics/#sthash.1CyjX4QJ.dpuf100,000 users 1/10 of the type 1's x $182/month = 18.2 million per month/ 218 million per year. 400,000.. 4/10............................................. 72.8 ...................... 873.6
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Post by stevil on Nov 22, 2015 15:24:08 GMT -5
I've been saying this for a while.
Something>>>>nothing. SNY has sunk a lot of money into Afrezza. You'd think they'd rather recoup something rather than nothing. Afrezza is currently sitting at the 2 yard line. It's a viable, FDA-approved drug. The expensive, heavy lifting has been done. Just need someone to take it the rest of the way in.
More speculation, but I can't imagine this isn't malicious*. While I don't have the authority to say this, they shouldn't have a problem recouping any marketing costs if they just got Afrezza covered. Especially if it's as great as those here and in social media have described.
edit: malicious unless there are studies being done that we aren't aware of that will increase the value of Afrezza to what SNY is asking. Then yes, don't budge on the price. But, as it stands now, they will never get Afrezza covered for that price.
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Post by peppy on Nov 22, 2015 15:47:48 GMT -5
I've been saying this for a while. Something>>>>nothing. SNY has sunk a lot of money into Afrezza. You'd think they'd rather recoup something rather than nothing. Afrezza is currently sitting at the 2 yard line. It's a viable, FDA-approved drug. The expensive, heavy lifting has been done. Just need someone to take it the rest of the way in. More speculation, but I can't imagine this isn't malicious*. While I don't have the authority to say this, they shouldn't have a problem recouping any marketing costs if they just got Afrezza covered. Especially if it's as great as those here and in social media have described. edit: malicious unless there are studies being done that we aren't aware of that will increase the value of Afrezza to what SNY is asking. Then yes, don't budge on the price. But, as it stands now, they will never get Afrezza covered for that price. oh it's that good. listen to matt. www.afrezzajustbreathe.com/ afrezzadownunder.com/ can I find the video about the TS signaling the liver to stop glucose... stops blood glucose levels from rising in the first place here it is... www.youtube.com/watch?v=oyqNBxaOGsY screencast.com/t/3BjR6TpJBUtg screencast.com/t/o13Z5DidK
Inappropriately, that may be the problem.......
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Post by lakers on Nov 22, 2015 17:20:22 GMT -5
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