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Post by cjc04 on Jan 5, 2016 10:45:07 GMT -5
For those speculating who terminated the agreement, and like the idea that MNKD did,,,,, I say it's very important, necessary, critical that SNY terminated the agreement. This way they've voluntarily walked away with no rights to anything, vs. SNY claiming they have rights and MNKD unjustly terminated.
With that said,,,,, I can't believe SNY has just walked away after many years of investment in Afrezza. Yes, I agree that they've done a horrible job over the past year, but they were obviously involved way before FDA approval and most likely know more about real world Afrezza than MNKD.
I'm searching hard for a new pitcher of Kool-aid (spiked with draino) because what else is there at this point. So I'm trying to see how this announcement is a precursor to something else, but the part of the announcement detailing the 3 to 6 months of transitioning development & commercialization back to MNKD makes it a reality.
Can't see how anyone thinks this is good for MNKD...... -2 years GONE!!! -a giant BP test drove for 18 months, LEFT!!!! -and if you thought BP had it in for us before, imagine how it's going to be now that SNY, who knows EVERYTHING about Afrezza is also a competitor.
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Post by mnkdnewbie on Jan 5, 2016 10:45:39 GMT -5
Wouldn't that be a kicker if the partnership was terminated because SNY has bought out MNKD... Is that possible? we were just discussing this, that they terminated the partnership because they will announce the sell of Afrezza to SNY after hours and the new CEO got such a good Salary and Benefits package because they knew this and he will take TS further....is this possible? Are there examples where companies terminate partnerships prior to the sell?
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Post by suebeeee1 on Jan 5, 2016 10:49:05 GMT -5
They'd never do this. By terminating the partnership, Sanofi now has NO rights to Afrezza, freeing up Al and the board to agree to a buyout with literally anyone else. Sanofi is bye-bye. They have no chance of ever retaining any rights to Afrezza or any TS application now. I still think SNY wanted to buy it, but they wanted it cheap, far cheaper than Al was willing to sell for, so they starved the launch intentionally in the hopes that MNKD would go bankrupt and they could but it in liquidation. They never made an attempt at commercialization. Something tells me that with a new CEO slated to take over on the day that the partnership was terminated, that there is some plan in the works. People have speculated that there may be another partner waiting in the wings, but I'm not sure. I do think we'll find one but I'm not sure there's one now. This is most assuredly NOT a negative development. SNY was doing nothing to make Afrezza a success and was not providing liquidity to ensure MNKD's operations. We just cut A LOT of dead weight. New CEO, new partner, new future. Today is a good day. El Wrongo! The cancellation was big time negative! If Afrezza had any value in the insulin market, SNY would never have cancelled. Tim Tebow, the Heisman winning QB from Florida was found to have inferior NFL QB skills. He no longer plays. Same with Afrezza; it failed as an every day prandial. El Wrongo? Ask anyone using the drug. It reduces A1c dramatically. It decreases the amount of the basal insulin that T1s need. T1s were getting off of their pumps. It will cut into the basal market when it reaches its potential. Another drug company will have quietly noticed. My guess is that there has been a plan in place for quite a while.
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Post by novafett on Jan 5, 2016 10:49:56 GMT -5
Funny how you are trying to win an argument by fighting with various competing football anecdotes. While loosely relevant it's getting a bit stupid.
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Post by silentknight on Jan 5, 2016 10:52:15 GMT -5
They'd never do this. By terminating the partnership, Sanofi now has NO rights to Afrezza, freeing up Al and the board to agree to a buyout with literally anyone else. Sanofi is bye-bye. They have no chance of ever retaining any rights to Afrezza or any TS application now. I still think SNY wanted to buy it, but they wanted it cheap, far cheaper than Al was willing to sell for, so they starved the launch intentionally in the hopes that MNKD would go bankrupt and they could but it in liquidation. They never made an attempt at commercialization. Something tells me that with a new CEO slated to take over on the day that the partnership was terminated, that there is some plan in the works. People have speculated that there may be another partner waiting in the wings, but I'm not sure. I do think we'll find one but I'm not sure there's one now. This is most assuredly NOT a negative development. SNY was doing nothing to make Afrezza a success and was not providing liquidity to ensure MNKD's operations. We just cut A LOT of dead weight. New CEO, new partner, new future. Today is a good day. El Wrongo! The cancellation was big time negative! If Afrezza had any value in the insulin market, SNY would never have cancelled. Tim Tebow, the Heisman winning QB from Florida was found to have inferior NFL QB skills. He no longer plays. Same with Afrezza; it failed as an every day prandial. I disagree. As yourself why? Why was there no market? Was it because the product is ineffective? NO. Was it because patients didn't like it? NO. There was no market because SNY did a piss-poor job of educating doctors on it's efficacy, how to use it appropriately and did jack-squat to improve formulary coverage, likely all by design. Afrezza didn't sell because they didn't WANT it to sell. Plain and simple. You can look at this as a negative, but with SNY as our partner, the stock lost 85% of it's value. They tried to kill MNKD. When they realized they couldn't and wouldn't be able to steal Afrezza for cheap, they bailed. Al likely called their bluff and this was probably planned months ago, which is why today is coincidentally the new CEO's FIRST DAY. Read the tea leaves.
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Post by suebeeee1 on Jan 5, 2016 10:53:32 GMT -5
Can't see how anyone thinks this is good for MNKD...... -2 years GONE!!! -a giant BP test drove for 18 months, LEFT!!!! -and if you thought BP had it in for us before, imagine how it's going to be now that SNY, who knows EVERYTHING about Afrezza is also a competitor. I can't understand how anyone could have ever thought that Afrezza was NOT a competitor against every insulin currently on the market today. Afrezza is superior, far faster with no hypoglycemia.
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Post by silentknight on Jan 5, 2016 10:55:04 GMT -5
They'd never do this. By terminating the partnership, Sanofi now has NO rights to Afrezza, freeing up Al and the board to agree to a buyout with literally anyone else. Sanofi is bye-bye. They have no chance of ever retaining any rights to Afrezza or any TS application now. I still think SNY wanted to buy it, but they wanted it cheap, far cheaper than Al was willing to sell for, so they starved the launch intentionally in the hopes that MNKD would go bankrupt and they could but it in liquidation. They never made an attempt at commercialization. Something tells me that with a new CEO slated to take over on the day that the partnership was terminated, that there is some plan in the works. People have speculated that there may be another partner waiting in the wings, but I'm not sure. I do think we'll find one but I'm not sure there's one now. This is most assuredly NOT a negative development. SNY was doing nothing to make Afrezza a success and was not providing liquidity to ensure MNKD's operations. We just cut A LOT of dead weight. New CEO, new partner, new future. Today is a good day. I agree that it's a good day. Just bought another 2000 shares. I bought 1K for a cool $1 apiece. It's all the dry powder I had.
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Post by cjc04 on Jan 5, 2016 10:55:25 GMT -5
Funny how you are trying to win an argument by fighting with various competing football anecdotes. While loosely relevant it's getting a bit stupid. OMG, I totally agree, enough already... And I was at the Brady game.
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Post by mnkdmorelong on Jan 5, 2016 10:58:22 GMT -5
El Wrongo! The cancellation was big time negative! If Afrezza had any value in the insulin market, SNY would never have cancelled. Tim Tebow, the Heisman winning QB from Florida was found to have inferior NFL QB skills. He no longer plays. Same with Afrezza; it failed as an every day prandial. El Wrongo? Ask anyone using the drug. It reduces A1c dramatically. It decreases the amount of the basal insulin that T1s need. T1s were getting off of their pumps. It will cut into the basal market when it reaches its potential. Another drug company will have quietly noticed. My guess is that there has been a plan in place for quite a while. You must understand the difference between Afrezza the product and Afrezza the business. The Afrezza product is excellent. But not enough diabetics made the switch to make Afrezza the business viable. The cancellation of the contract at the earliest possible date tells me that SNY sees no hope for Afrezza the business. Moreover, they think that none of their competitors can pick up Afrezza and do better.
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Post by cjc04 on Jan 5, 2016 11:01:04 GMT -5
El Wrongo! The cancellation was big time negative! If Afrezza had any value in the insulin market, SNY would never have cancelled. Tim Tebow, the Heisman winning QB from Florida was found to have inferior NFL QB skills. He no longer plays. Same with Afrezza; it failed as an every day prandial. I disagree. As yourself why? Why was there no market? Was it because the product is ineffective? NO. Was it because patients didn't like it? NO. There was no market because SNY did a piss-poor job of educating doctors on it's efficacy, how to use it appropriately and did jack-squat to improve formulary coverage, likely all by design. Afrezza didn't sell because they didn't WANT it to sell. Plain and simple. You can look at this as a negative, but with SNY as our partner, the stock lost 85% of it's value. They tried to kill MNKD. When they realized they couldn't and wouldn't be able to steal Afrezza for cheap, they bailed. Al likely called their bluff and this was probably planned months ago, which is why today is coincidentally the new CEO's FIRST DAY. Read the tea leaves. [ Ok, I can see all of what you're saying.... But in the end, if Afrezza is so good (which I believe) and no one knows it more than SNY, why would SNY walk away from it? If the drug is so incredible it won't be buried, so why abandon it for someone else?
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Post by mindovermatter on Jan 5, 2016 11:04:31 GMT -5
I disagree. As yourself why? Why was there no market? Was it because the product is ineffective? NO. Was it because patients didn't like it? NO. There was no market because SNY did a piss-poor job of educating doctors on it's efficacy, how to use it appropriately and did jack-squat to improve formulary coverage, likely all by design. Afrezza didn't sell because they didn't WANT it to sell. Plain and simple. You can look at this as a negative, but with SNY as our partner, the stock lost 85% of it's value. They tried to kill MNKD. When they realized they couldn't and wouldn't be able to steal Afrezza for cheap, they bailed. Al likely called their bluff and this was probably planned months ago, which is why today is coincidentally the new CEO's FIRST DAY. Read the tea leaves. [ Ok, I can see all of what you're saying.... But in the end, if Afrezza is so good (which I believe) and no one knows it more than SNY, why would SNY walk away from it? If the drug is so incredible it won't be buried, so why abandon it for someone else? Why did Sanofi walk away? Insurance reluctance to cover it and poor label that would have been very expensive to correct it.
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Post by ricguy on Jan 5, 2016 11:12:28 GMT -5
[ Ok, I can see all of what you're saying.... But in the end, if Afrezza is so good (which I believe) and no one knows it more than SNY, why would SNY walk away from it? If the drug is so incredible it won't be buried, so why abandon it for someone else? Why did Sanofi walk away? Insurance reluctance to cover it and poor label that would have been very expensive to correct it. Agree here and my next question is why did SNY partner in the first place? SNY is experienced they must have known at least some of these obstacles, wonder how this would have played out with SNY's previous CEO.
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Post by silentknight on Jan 5, 2016 11:13:28 GMT -5
I disagree. As yourself why? Why was there no market? Was it because the product is ineffective? NO. Was it because patients didn't like it? NO. There was no market because SNY did a piss-poor job of educating doctors on it's efficacy, how to use it appropriately and did jack-squat to improve formulary coverage, likely all by design. Afrezza didn't sell because they didn't WANT it to sell. Plain and simple. You can look at this as a negative, but with SNY as our partner, the stock lost 85% of it's value. They tried to kill MNKD. When they realized they couldn't and wouldn't be able to steal Afrezza for cheap, they bailed. Al likely called their bluff and this was probably planned months ago, which is why today is coincidentally the new CEO's FIRST DAY. Read the tea leaves. [ Ok, I can see all of what you're saying.... But in the end, if Afrezza is so good (which I believe) and no one knows it more than SNY, why would SNY walk away from it? If the drug is so incredible it won't be buried, so why abandon it for someone else? The product was overpriced and poorly marketed. You do little to educate doctors or improve formulary coverage, coupled with a price point that is too high and no medical product is going to sell. Doctors STILL don't know about Afrezza. Something tells me Al made it very clear to them that they weren't living up to their end of the deal. I still think MNKD has grounds to sue much like Genzyme did against SNY, and I hope they do. Anyone with a pair of eyes and any objectivity can see that they didn't live up to their end of the partnership. Compare Afrezza to other drug launches and you'll see why.
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Post by dictatorsaurus on Jan 5, 2016 11:16:34 GMT -5
I'm one of the few longs here who is actually happy today. Sanofi did not promote Afrezza, did nothing to improve the label, barely mentioned it in their cc's and when they did they shat on it and blamed it for poor sales within their diabetes division. The Sanofi deal felt bad from day one. Their new CEO never believed in it.
A new smaller more aggressive partner is what MNKD needs.
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Post by mindovermatter on Jan 5, 2016 11:16:34 GMT -5
Why did Sanofi walk away? Insurance reluctance to cover it and poor label that would have been very expensive to correct it. Agree here and my next question is why did SNY partner in the first place? SNY is experienced they must have known at least some of these obstacles, wonder how this would have played out with SNY's previous CEO. The quote from the SNY spokeshack doesn't make sense unless the company defines best efforts by SNY as doing the bare minimum. Many doctors never heard of Afrezza. I think the problems surrounding SNY's diabetes division are so great that the company had to make a decision as to what they wanted to focus on and Afrezza wasn't one of them due to the costs associated and the fact that it didn't own it 100%. We can speculate that if Afrezza was 100% owned by SNY, would it have dropped it? I don't think so.
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