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Post by vissertrades on Jan 12, 2016 16:09:15 GMT -5
From YMB to apply grain of salt.
regenmedprovider • 13 minutes ago Flag
10users liked this postsusers disliked this posts0Reply
Talked to my SNY reps today
Who were well aware of the split. They said SNY only rolled it out to targeted Endo's who were extremely pleased with the results with Afrezza. Patients love it, Endo's LOVE it. But the Endo's don't do Pulmonary Function tests in their offices and had to send the patients out to either a primary care provider or to pulmonologists. So it was cumbersome. SNY didn't open up Afrezza to their wider sales force and when I asked why only the Endo's and not primary care providers I got the big "We don't know?" I told them we in primary care do PFT's routinely and many of us were curious as to why we weren't also targeted the answer was another "I don't know because everyone knows primary care providers see patients more frequently and know them better." We manage their care routinely.
Here's my advice to the next marketer: target the Certified Diabetic Educators, Primacy Care MDs, NPs and PAs. Offer to provide a free PFT machine if they don't already have one. It is relatively inexpensive and they can be reimbursed by Medicare and 3rd Party Payors. Because SNY, although they know Afrezza was an outstanding product, for some reason, chose the most cumbersome and difficult to reach target market, Endo's.
I predict more on this will come out, and that the next partner will be much more broad in its marketing scope. Less
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Post by vissertrades on Jan 12, 2016 16:17:00 GMT -5
FWIW, both my primary care and endo had been given samples of Afrezza as they showed me.
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Post by bill on Jan 12, 2016 16:54:49 GMT -5
This is all great information. The clearer it becomes to the world at large the SNY mismanaged the launch, the greater the probability that other companies will be interested in partnering with MNKD. In addition, the negative publicity surrounding the break up may turn out to be great exposure for Afrezza and MNKD. A lot hinges on how well Matt's presentation and Q&A goes tomorrow. We could be back to bankruptcy conversations by Thursday evening if things go poorly or back over $1 if they go well. |
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Post by fedakd on Jan 12, 2016 17:30:07 GMT -5
Im not surprised at all. Sanofi should be sued.
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Post by compound26 on Jan 12, 2016 17:54:12 GMT -5
With more and more comments like this, it looks more and more likely that Sanofi may offer to pay a parting settlement to Mannkind to save its reputation. Pfizer gave Nektar $130 million as a parting settlement for such purpose within one month after it announced dropping Exubera. At this point of time, a $50-100 million parting settlement would help Mannkind's balance sheet greatly.
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Post by bioexec25 on Jan 12, 2016 18:13:39 GMT -5
With more and more comments like this, it looks more and more likely that Sanofi may offer to pay a parting settlement to Mannkind to save its reputation. Pfizer gave Nektar $130 million as a parting settlement for such purpose within one month after it announced dropping Exubera. At this point of time, a $50-100 million parting settlement would help Mannkind's balance sheet greatly. Thanks compound, I was wondering if there has been precedence for this, God knows the company deserves something for the lost time alone. The other thing I can't recall (among many things these days), is there another product that has had a similar fate to Afrezza, e.g. partnership that went astray and then either re-partner or sold and relaunch. Not that ANY precedence matches what we've been through, just curious is there any patterns or learnings that can be extracted. I would think in most cases, a 2nd try isn't simple, but the extenuating circumstances of Sny worrying about reduced basil, CEO with inhaled phobia, etc. make this a pretty unique case. Thoughts anyone? Thanks. |
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Post by dreamboatcruise on Jan 12, 2016 18:14:16 GMT -5
With more and more comments like this, it looks more and more likely that Sanofi may offer to pay a parting settlement to Mannkind to save its reputation. Pfizer gave Nektar $130 million as a parting settlement for such purpose within one month after it announced dropping Exubera. At this point of time, a $50-100 million parting settlement would help Mannkind's balance sheet greatly. I wonder if the Exubera deal had a similar Joint Committee supposedly making the decisions about budget and activities. We don't know whether MNKD went along with SNY recommendations, put up some resistance or forced SNY to use their override powers. Seems like that would have a lot to do with the strength of MNKD being able to claim injury and thus extract compensation. I don't see that any company is going to pay that sort of money solely for reputation... and in fact I don't really see paying money as a way they would save their reputation, as that actually seems to be to some degree admitting it was their fault rather than a faulty product. |
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Post by plumber7474 on Jan 12, 2016 18:40:06 GMT -5
From YMB to apply grain of salt. regenmedprovider • 13 minutes ago Flag 10users liked this postsusers disliked this posts0Reply Talked to my SNY reps today Who were well aware of the split. They said SNY only rolled it out to targeted Endo's who were extremely pleased with the results with Afrezza. Patients love it, Endo's LOVE it. But the Endo's don't do Pulmonary Function tests in their offices and had to send the patients out to either a primary care provider or to pulmonologists. So it was cumbersome. SNY didn't open up Afrezza to their wider sales force and when I asked why only the Endo's and not primary care providers I got the big "We don't know?" I told them we in primary care do PFT's routinely and many of us were curious as to why we weren't also targeted the answer was another "I don't know because everyone knows primary care providers see patients more frequently and know them better." We manage their care routinely. Here's my advice to the next marketer: target the Certified Diabetic Educators, Primacy Care MDs, NPs and PAs. Offer to provide a free PFT machine if they don't already have one. It is relatively inexpensive and they can be reimbursed by Medicare and 3rd Party Payors. Because SNY, although they know Afrezza was an outstanding product, for some reason, chose the most cumbersome and difficult to reach target market, Endo's. I predict more on this will come out, and that the next partner will be much more broad in its marketing scope. Less are you guys kidding me. The credible ymb poster... Hahaha pathetic!! |
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Post by kc on Jan 12, 2016 18:52:30 GMT -5
With more and more comments like this, it looks more and more likely that Sanofi may offer to pay a parting settlement to Mannkind to save its reputation. Pfizer gave Nektar $130 million as a parting settlement for such purpose within one month after it announced dropping Exubera. At this point of time, a $50-100 million parting settlement would help Mannkind's balance sheet greatly. Actually to avoid a lawsuit it should be the balance of the milestone payments. Then Mannkind could give Sanofi a total release. |
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Post by dreamboatcruise on Jan 12, 2016 19:13:24 GMT -5
With more and more comments like this, it looks more and more likely that Sanofi may offer to pay a parting settlement to Mannkind to save its reputation. Pfizer gave Nektar $130 million as a parting settlement for such purpose within one month after it announced dropping Exubera. At this point of time, a $50-100 million parting settlement would help Mannkind's balance sheet greatly. Actually to avoid a lawsuit it should be the balance of the milestone payments. Then Mannkind could give Sanofi a total release. Don't forget forgiving the debt while you're creating the wish list... oh, and new cars for all the MNKD shareholders. |
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Post by nadathing on Jan 12, 2016 19:18:22 GMT -5
I posted last week on this board and today on YMB that the doctor I see for diabetes is in internal medicine at Park Nicollet clinic in St. Louis Park, MN. She has not heard of Afrezza, but they also do not allow pharma reps to come in. I got a new script (Trulicity) and the nurse who came in to instruct on the use of the pen said she was familiar with Afrezza and that they had some patients on it. Those scripts were written by family practice physicians. I suspect doctors in some regions were called on and some were not.
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Post by charleyd on Jan 12, 2016 19:31:43 GMT -5
With more and more comments like this, it looks more and more likely that Sanofi may offer to pay a parting settlement to Mannkind to save its reputation. Pfizer gave Nektar $130 million as a parting settlement for such purpose within one month after it announced dropping Exubera. At this point of time, a $50-100 million parting settlement would help Mannkind's balance sheet greatly. I wonder if the Exubera deal had a similar Joint Committee supposedly making the decisions about budget and activities. We don't know whether MNKD went along with SNY recommendations, put up some resistance or forced SNY to use their override powers. Seems like that would have a lot to do with the strength of MNKD being able to claim injury and thus extract compensation. I don't see that any company is going to pay that sort of money solely for reputation... and in fact I don't really see paying money as a way they would save their reputation, as that actually seems to be to some degree admitting it was their fault rather than a faulty product. Following is a comment that I made for George Rho's article today regarding Afrezza pricing. Nothing concrete, but based on Al's comment about pricing, it would appear that Sanofi at least changed their opinion on pricing early on, and that this was contrary to what Al at least initially thought should occur: bit.ly/1mV7ILYMatt_PK, per the referenced interview with Al Mann: "SF: How will the product be priced compared to injected insulin? Will it be similar to Humalog? AM: I cannot offer a precise answer because we have just executed our partnership agreements with Sanofi, and Sanofi is responsible for establishing the pricing. Our intention has been to sell it at very close to the same price as the equivalent dose of pen delivered rapid acting analogs, and we believe Sanofi is in agreement." From this, it seems that MNKD should have considerable pricing latitude going forward. It also appears to highlight that it was Sanofi's decision to charge the high price, which hampered insurance coverage, and which is consistent with the premise of this article that Sanofi performed miserably in its obligations. |
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Post by compound26 on Jan 12, 2016 19:37:31 GMT -5
With more and more comments like this, it looks more and more likely that Sanofi may offer to pay a parting settlement to Mannkind to save its reputation. Pfizer gave Nektar $130 million as a parting settlement for such purpose within one month after it announced dropping Exubera. At this point of time, a $50-100 million parting settlement would help Mannkind's balance sheet greatly. Actually to avoid a lawsuit it should be the balance of the milestone payments. Then Mannkind could give Sanofi a total release. While that will be great, that probably is not realistic. I believe for cash-strapped Mannkind, they will be willing to release Sanofi from further lawsuit if they can get anything close to $100 million of cash right now from Sanofi. Of course, this is only my view, with the $130 million payment from Pfizer as a reference point. |
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Post by goyocafe on Jan 12, 2016 20:16:51 GMT -5
Actually to avoid a lawsuit it should be the balance of the milestone payments. Then Mannkind could give Sanofi a total release. While that will be great, that probably is not realistic. I believe for cash-strapped Mannkind, they will be willing to release Sanofi from further lawsuit if they can get anything close to $100 million of cash right now from Sanofi. Of course, this is only my view, with the $130 million payment from Pfizer as a reference point. $100 million and release of all priority of SNY claim to collateralized assets for the loan agreement. |
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Post by peppy on Jan 13, 2016 5:49:26 GMT -5
Actually to avoid a lawsuit it should be the balance of the milestone payments. Then Mannkind could give Sanofi a total release. While that will be great, that probably is not realistic. I believe for cash-strapped Mannkind, they will be willing to release Sanofi from further lawsuit if they can get anything close to $100 million of cash right now from Sanofi. Of course, this is only my view, with the $130 million payment from Pfizer as a reference point. from above, charleyd, AM: I cannot offer a precise answer because we have just executed our partnership agreements with Sanofi, and Sanofi is responsible for establishing the pricing. Our intention has been to sell it at very close to the same price as the equivalent dose of pen delivered rapid acting analogs, and we believe Sanofi is in agreement."
Interesting to see if this is part of the plan. Thank you for the thoughts and commentary.
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