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Post by mindovermatter on Jan 27, 2016 8:50:10 GMT -5
MNKD doesn't sell here if Al Mann is not happy with whatever offer he can get. My gut tells me he won't be happy at all, and therefore, no sale. Al didn't start MNKD to make money- he started it as a philanthropic effort. He was already a billionaire and publicly stated that he didn't want to leave his fortune to his children. He's not in this for the money, although he's not in it to lose money either. If they are entertaining any deals, it's not because they're trying to profit on the company. It's because they're being forced to sell out of inevitable bankruptcy. I don't know Al personally, so this comment might seem silly, but I can almost guarantee you that he wouldn't hand over this company to someone else unless he needed to. He'd much rather keep it in the hands of those whom he appointed and trusts. Al is no dummy nor are the people managing his money. He knew that Mannkind was a risky venture and that Afrezza wouldn't be a slam dunk. So how do you think he has hedged his Mannkind investment. In light of the drastic hair cut Mannkind has taken, his net worth has had to take a huge hit. He is no longer a billionaire unless he hedged. If he did hedge his bet with Afrezza, just how did he do it? |
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Post by stevil on Jan 27, 2016 8:56:45 GMT -5
Again, I don't know the guy, but from the videos and print that I've seen, I don't think he's all that worried about his wealth. He's nearing the end of his life- if he was concerned about money, he wouldn't have risked losing it. It sounded like he socked away what he wanted to leave for his beneficiaries. I truly don't think he's concerned about losing this money, although I do believe he would try to salvage whatever was possible so that he could have more to give away to a different cause. I thought I remembered hearing that he was only leaving 10% or so to his beneficiaries and the other 90% was going to charity. I would think that Afrezza would fall under the charitable umbrella because I don't think Al was ever intending to directly profit from it. He wanted it to be his contribution to his fellow man.
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Post by trondisc on Jan 27, 2016 9:24:57 GMT -5
Well said Stevil.
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Post by mnholdem on Jan 27, 2016 9:28:09 GMT -5
That "charity" is the Alfred Mann Foundation (AMF). What happens to Al's shares in the event of his death is specified in the company's 10-K filing. Incidentally, two of Al's kids are on the BofD of AMF and they, too, have spent most of their lives working to improve medicine. I think Mann's shares might be in good hands.
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Post by trenddiver on Jan 27, 2016 9:53:33 GMT -5
MNKD doesn't sell here if Al Mann is not happy with whatever offer he can get. My gut tells me he won't be happy at all, and therefore, no sale. Al didn't start MNKD to make money- he started it as a philanthropic effort. He was already a billionaire and publicly stated that he didn't want to leave his fortune to his children. He's not in this for the money, although he's not in it to lose money either. If they are entertaining any deals, it's not because they're trying to profit on the company. It's because they're being forced to sell out of inevitable bankruptcy. I don't know Al personally, so this comment might seem silly, but I can almost guarantee you that he wouldn't hand over this company to someone else unless he needed to. He'd much rather keep it in the hands of those whom he appointed and trusts. Stevil, I don't think you know anything about Al Mann or his motivations. Your statement that Al started Mannkind as a philanthropic effort is just utter nonsense. If you have read or listened to any of Al Mann's interview, you would understand that Al is an entrepreneur interested in making money by developing products that help people. Although he intends to or has already donated his shares to the Al Mann Foundation, unless Mannkind is successful in its endeavors, his goal of helping people well past his own lifetime will not have been realized. Al has said many times, that his goal with Mannkind is to help patients and reward shareholders, I believe that is still his goal. Trend |
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Post by stevil on Jan 27, 2016 10:34:04 GMT -5
Al didn't start MNKD to make money- he started it as a philanthropic effort. He was already a billionaire and publicly stated that he didn't want to leave his fortune to his children. He's not in this for the money, although he's not in it to lose money either. If they are entertaining any deals, it's not because they're trying to profit on the company. It's because they're being forced to sell out of inevitable bankruptcy. I don't know Al personally, so this comment might seem silly, but I can almost guarantee you that he wouldn't hand over this company to someone else unless he needed to. He'd much rather keep it in the hands of those whom he appointed and trusts. Stevil, I don't think you know anything about Al Mann or his motivations. Your statement that Al started Mannkind as a philanthropic effort is just utter nonsense. If you have read or listened to any of Al Mann's interview, you would understand that Al is an entrepreneur interested in making money by developing products that help people. Although he intends to or has already donated his shares to the Al Mann Foundation, unless Mannkind is successful in its endeavors, his goal of helping people well past his own lifetime will not have been realized. Al has said many times, that his goal with Mannkind is to help patients and reward shareholders, I believe that is still his goal. Trend Not sure why you're focusing exclusively on one part of what I'm saying while ignoring the point I was making. I don't think Al started MNKD with the intention of losing money. My point was Al and his family is already set financially. I don't think he will sell/not sell based on money. The only reason he would sell is if he is forced to. I'm not even really sure what you're debating other than just trying to disagree with me on a point I was never making... Of course he doesn't want to lose money and of course he's trying to protect shareholders value. What did I say that would lead you to think I was stating otherwise? |
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Post by trenddiver on Jan 27, 2016 10:52:30 GMT -5
Stevil, I don't think you know anything about Al Mann or his motivations. Your statement that Al started Mannkind as a philanthropic effort is just utter nonsense. If you have read or listened to any of Al Mann's interview, you would understand that Al is an entrepreneur interested in making money by developing products that help people. Although he intends to or has already donated his shares to the Al Mann Foundation, unless Mannkind is successful in its endeavors, his goal of helping people well past his own lifetime will not have been realized. Al has said many times, that his goal with Mannkind is to help patients and reward shareholders, I believe that is still his goal. Trend Not sure why you're focusing exclusively on one part of what I'm saying while ignoring the point I was making. I don't think Al started MNKD with the intention of losing money. My point was Al and his family is already set financially. I don't think he will sell/not sell based on money. The only reason he would sell is if he is forced to. I'm not even really sure what you're debating other than just trying to disagree with me on a point I was never making... Of course he doesn't want to lose money and of course he's trying to protect shareholders value. What did I say that would lead you to think I was stating otherwise? Well, let's just start with the first sentence - "Al didn't start Mannkind to make money - he started it as a philanthropic effort." What I object to is the overall dark cloud that surrounds your post, which is Al doesn't care about making money and he has no real profit motive. This point of view begs the question - why should any investor own Mannkind shares if the position of the founder, Chairman of the Board, and largest shareholder is what you state? It's what I would call sophisticated FUD. Trend |
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Post by nugjuice on Jan 27, 2016 10:57:37 GMT -5
Since none of us know Al Mann personally, I think the only things we can assume about him and/or his intentions are that he's incredibly intelligent and successful, and that he believes in this product.
Accordingly, we can assume that he's going to try and do SOMETHING to make sure this product comes to market.
Anything beyond that is all speculation. Whether MNKD shareholders will benefit much (if at all) once this product finally gains traction is up in the air.
Personally, I'm just finally reading this board/MNKD news again after losing a ton of $ for myself and all the people I got invested in this company. I've been taking the Ostrich approach since the SNY news =(
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Post by mnholdem on Jan 27, 2016 11:22:29 GMT -5
Whether MNKD shareholders will benefit much (if at all) once this product finally gains traction is up in the air. Personally, I'm just finally reading this board/MNKD news again after losing a ton of $ for myself and all the people I got invested in this company. I've been taking the Ostrich approach since the SNY news =( When one thinks about it, less than one year has expired since Afrezza launched in February 2015. That's not a lot of time, when one thinks in terms of how many years (and shareholders wringing hands) that many new drugs have had to endure before they finally started to "gain traction", as you put it.
I've been too busy averaging down my shares to bury my head in the sand. What happened with Sanofi is simply incredulous, and I'm not entirely certain that anything different would have occurred if MannKind had partnered with another giant in the diabetes treatment arena. Afrezza was clearly a threat to all of them.
The "not-so-bad" news, in my opinion, is that Afrezza marketing has been set back only a little more than a year. In addition, two of the FDA-required post-marketing studies are now complete, the data from which will be presented at the 2016 ADA by the latest, a robust social network has evolved around Afrezza and work on the pipeline has been progressing nicely. We even have a new partner that will be licensing Technosphere to develop its own line of medicines, which certainly cannot hurt in terms of presenting the technology as a viable solution for other companies who want to develop drugs using pulmonary delivery.
I firmly believe that, even on their own, MannKind Corporation can grow Afrezza sales via e-Marketing and, coupled with competitive pricing, obtain critical 3rd party payer coverage so that diabetics can have access through their health plans. The growth may not be as robust as if we had a partner with a large sales force, but as long as it pays the bills... we're good in the short term and the prospects are even better as Afrezza gains recognition.
How soon MannKind can begin negotiations with insurers should be answered at next week's investor conference call. Many questions will be answered and, once they become public record, MannKind Corporation will probably put them on its Q&A for Investors website page.
One thing has NOT changed, is that Afrezza still remains a threat to Sanofi-Aventis, Novo-Nordisk and Eli-Lilly. The real world patient response and early data suggest that Afrezza can capture a large slice of the prandial insulin market, if it is put into the right hands and marketed properly. Those who suggest that their is little demand for Afrezza, solely because of the insulin itself, are truly the ones who have their heads in the sand, IMHO.
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Post by stevil on Jan 27, 2016 11:31:08 GMT -5
Not sure why you're focusing exclusively on one part of what I'm saying while ignoring the point I was making. I don't think Al started MNKD with the intention of losing money. My point was Al and his family is already set financially. I don't think he will sell/not sell based on money. The only reason he would sell is if he is forced to. I'm not even really sure what you're debating other than just trying to disagree with me on a point I was never making... Of course he doesn't want to lose money and of course he's trying to protect shareholders value. What did I say that would lead you to think I was stating otherwise? Well, let's just start with the first sentence - "Al didn't start Mannkind to make money - he started it as a philanthropic effort." What I object to is the overall dark cloud that surrounds your post, which is Al doesn't care about making money and he has no real profit motive. This point of view begs the question - why should any investor own Mannkind shares if the position of the founder, Chairman of the Board, and largest shareholder is what you state? It's what I would call sophisticated FUD. Trend Right, you're still not understanding my point. Afrezza/MNKD wasn't just an entrepreneurial endeavor. The main purpose of both was to leave a legacy of healing and betterment of medicine. It still seems like you're purposefully choosing to read into what I'm writing. I could have worded it better, but one doesn't preclude the other. In fact, the success of Afrezza/TS would have meant that his philanthropic effort reached its potential. Surely you can understand this. Al didn't need the money. His family didn't need the money. He wasn't doing this for money, at least not for himself. If that's the case, a sale should not be looked upon favorably because it would mean that he was forced to do so, meaning they believe bankruptcy is imminent. That is my point. I'm still not sure what yours is outside of trying to quibble with me... |
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Post by mnholdem on Jan 27, 2016 11:37:21 GMT -5
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Post by suebeeee1 on Jan 27, 2016 11:39:19 GMT -5
Well, let's just start with the first sentence - "Al didn't start Mannkind to make money - he started it as a philanthropic effort." What I object to is the overall dark cloud that surrounds your post, which is Al doesn't care about making money and he has no real profit motive. This point of view begs the question - why should any investor own Mannkind shares if the position of the founder, Chairman of the Board, and largest shareholder is what you state? It's what I would call sophisticated FUD. Trend Right, you're still not understanding my point. Afrezza/MNKD wasn't just an entrepreneurial endeavor. The main purpose of both was to leave a legacy of healing and betterment of medicine. It still seems like you're purposefully choosing to read into what I'm writing. I could have worded it better, but one doesn't preclude the other. In fact, the success of Afrezza/TS would have meant that his philanthropic effort reached its potential. Surely you can understand this. Al didn't need the money. His family didn't need the money. He wasn't doing this for money, at least not for himself. If that's the case, a sale should not be looked upon favorably because it would mean that he was forced to do so, meaning they believe bankruptcy is imminent. That is my point. I'm still not sure what yours is outside of trying to quibble with me... Geez...you guys are parsing words as much as theologians trying to determine how many angels dance on the head of a pin! I think that Stevil was trying to be nice (maybe) by complementing Al Mann. It would appear that he thinks Al is a humanitarian first. Nice thought. Trend is worrying about share price and investments first. Al has made a ton of money on every product he has brought to market, so I figure Al has always wanted Technosphere to be success in that way. It would fund his foundation forever. You are both right. |
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Post by trenddiver on Jan 27, 2016 11:45:52 GMT -5
Well, let's just start with the first sentence - "Al didn't start Mannkind to make money - he started it as a philanthropic effort." What I object to is the overall dark cloud that surrounds your post, which is Al doesn't care about making money and he has no real profit motive. This point of view begs the question - why should any investor own Mannkind shares if the position of the founder, Chairman of the Board, and largest shareholder is what you state? It's what I would call sophisticated FUD. Trend Right, you're still not understanding my point. Afrezza/MNKD wasn't just an entrepreneurial endeavor. The main purpose of both was to leave a legacy of healing and betterment of medicine. It still seems like you're purposefully choosing to read into what I'm writing. I could have worded it better, but one doesn't preclude the other. In fact, the success of Afrezza/TS would have meant that his philanthropic effort reached its potential. Surely you can understand this. Al didn't need the money. His family didn't need the money. He wasn't doing this for money, at least not for himself. If that's the case, a sale should not be looked upon favorably because it would mean that he was forced to do so, meaning they believe bankruptcy is imminent. That is my point. I'm still not sure what yours is outside of trying to quibble with me... You sound like one of those politicians trying to walk back your ridiculous statement. How about this statement of yours - "It's because they are forced to sell out of inevitable bankruptcy." I'm understand your point of view, and don't buy into your soft bashing FUD. Trend |
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Post by stevil on Jan 27, 2016 12:02:24 GMT -5
Right, you're still not understanding my point. Afrezza/MNKD wasn't just an entrepreneurial endeavor. The main purpose of both was to leave a legacy of healing and betterment of medicine. It still seems like you're purposefully choosing to read into what I'm writing. I could have worded it better, but one doesn't preclude the other. In fact, the success of Afrezza/TS would have meant that his philanthropic effort reached its potential. Surely you can understand this. Al didn't need the money. His family didn't need the money. He wasn't doing this for money, at least not for himself. If that's the case, a sale should not be looked upon favorably because it would mean that he was forced to do so, meaning they believe bankruptcy is imminent. That is my point. I'm still not sure what yours is outside of trying to quibble with me... You sound like one of those politicians trying to walk back your ridiculous statement. How about this statement of yours - "It's because they are forced to sell out of inevitable bankruptcy." I'm understand your point of view, and don't buy into your soft bashing FUD. Trend Soft bashing FUD? So you're trying to tell me that Al is going to sell his namesake company purely to profit from it? He's not going to care if it ends up in hands of people he doesn't know/trust rather than leaving it in the hands of people he hand-picked? Think about what you're saying right now... If Al was really trying to turn a profit from this company, now wouldn't be the time to sell. Its valuation is at the lowest it has ever been. If Al's motivation was money (which why in the world would a 90 year old billionaire need more money?) then why sell now and not before? Come on man, I'm trying to be nice but you're being really dense. I guess I have nothing more to add and we'll just have to agree to disagree if you want to. |
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Post by mnholdem on Jan 27, 2016 12:16:16 GMT -5
If either of you feels the need to add more, please do us all a favor and consider continuing this discussion via Private Message, okay?
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