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Post by symbil on Feb 11, 2016 10:53:45 GMT -5
seanismorris ... sorry for confusion. I did not mean to imply I thought there was a link. Merely pointing out that I believe there are times when secrecy is not suspicious... i.e. RLS as a startup in stealth mode. I doubt anybody thinks a few clinics will send scripts shooting... after all, how many docs could there be and how many new patients could they see in one day? Not that I would assign a high probability of this actually being a positive, but I guess I'm hoping that maybe these clinics (which apparently will highlight Afrezza use if not called an "Afrezza clinic") will have some model that appears to be an improvement with the payer situation. I have a hard time imagining that anyone could develop a viable business plan around the idea of highlighting the use of a drug that either isn't available at all or requires significant extra work by staff to get coverage for 3/4 of patients... especially given that previous attempts at diabetes clinics even by seasoned hospitals have failed on financial terms because of lack of reimbursement. Arent the centers being run by someone affiliated with these boards? I think it was pkgossett? |
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Post by dreamboatcruise on Feb 11, 2016 12:07:29 GMT -5
Does Mannkind have only ONE chance to set the price right on April 5th? Can they price it so low that cash pay is reasonable and not much more than a higher copay might be? How many diabetics without insurance might buy Afrezza if it was affordable to them? Can they leverage the opening of the NJ clinic to get publicity for Afrezza? DBC - I think you asked in another thread whether simply setting the price very low (e.g. lower than all other RAA's) would trigger an "easy" path to insurance coverage. That is a good question; I am sure it is complicated and there is negotiation and kickbacks required with PBM's. Maybe the poster know as "me" (Ranger) might know? He posted a good explanation of the role of PBM's in the pricing process. No one here knows the cost of production so can't really speculate on how low they could price it and still have any profit margin. Of course the argument for Afrezza being a blockbuster weakens if it starts getting sold for a fraction of what other prandials are. In any case, MNKD has indicated more than once that rough parity with SQ RAA was what they intended. |
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Post by symbil on Feb 11, 2016 12:10:12 GMT -5
And thats the stupidity (or intelligence) of SNY. They priced it at a premium to other RAA's, despite the fact that the label only showed that it wasnt inferior to other RAA's. It was over at the start.
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Post by dreamboatcruise on Feb 11, 2016 12:27:33 GMT -5
And thats the stupidity (or intelligence) of SNY. They priced it at a premium to other RAA's, despite the fact that the label only showed that it wasnt inferior to other RAA's. It was over at the start. Though prior to the breakup, those defending SNY were proposing that the high pricing was part of how negotiations occurred with payers and the real price negotiated would be lower. |
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Post by phantomfj on Feb 11, 2016 12:32:49 GMT -5
Why not target a few wealthy type areas? Some places like silicon valley, there have to be some diabetics in that population, and since many of them are innovators I would think they would be willing to try out some new therapy that shows great promise..........out of pocket drug costs shouldn't deter risk takers like that.
And, you would just need a few high profile types to make the masses yearn for it...........hell, if a Kardashian was seen using a dreamboat, non-diabetics would want diabetes to be able to use it!
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Post by dreamboatcruise on Feb 11, 2016 13:08:26 GMT -5
Why not target a few wealthy type areas? Some places like silicon valley, there have to be some diabetics in that population, and since many of them are innovators I would think they would be willing to try out some new therapy that shows great promise..........out of pocket drug costs shouldn't deter risk takers like that. And, you would just need a few high profile types to make the masses yearn for it...........hell, if a Kardashian was seen using a dreamboat, non-diabetics would want diabetes to be able to use it! You have a very different perspective on use of prescription drugs than I do. I just don't see that mattering much at all. There is someone on American Idol that has been supporting Afrezza on social media. That didn't seem to create a firestorm of interest. I just don't think what prescription someone famous uses is the type of thing that even their followers would retweet, etc. So I'm just not buying the "Did you hear Kim Kardashian is on Lipitor... I really have to get that" argument. The brand of shoes she just bought... I'm sure that happens. |
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Post by mindovermatter on Feb 11, 2016 13:12:54 GMT -5
Why not target a few wealthy type areas? Some places like silicon valley, there have to be some diabetics in that population, and since many of them are innovators I would think they would be willing to try out some new therapy that shows great promise..........out of pocket drug costs shouldn't deter risk takers like that. And, you would just need a few high profile types to make the masses yearn for it...........hell, if a Kardashian was seen using a dreamboat, non-diabetics would want diabetes to be able to use it! You have a very different perspective on use of prescription drugs than I do. I just don't see that mattering much at all. There is someone on American Idol that has been supporting Afrezza on social media. That didn't seem to create a firestorm of interest. I just don't think what prescription someone famous uses is the type of thing that even their followers would retweet, etc. So I'm just not buying the "Did you hear Kim Kardashian is on Lipitor... I really have to get that" argument. The brand of shoes she just bought... I'm sure that happens. A good point. The harsh reality is Adam Lasher is not a well known figure and that no one really cares about him and his diabetes other than those that might have the disease. Do you think some pre teen or teen age girl that lusts after him wants to read his tweets about how much he loves his Afrezza? What ever happened with Elizabeth Perkins? She tweeted once about it and then nothing ever again. Very few things ever go viral. Afrezza's odds of ever going viral via social media is slim to none. |
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Post by dreamboatcruise on Feb 11, 2016 15:44:58 GMT -5
A good point. The harsh reality is Adam Lasher is not a well known figure and that no one really cares about him and his diabetes other than those that might have the disease. Do you think some pre teen or teen age girl that lusts after him wants to read his tweets about how much he loves his Afrezza? What ever happened with Elizabeth Perkins? She tweeted once about it and then nothing ever again. Very few things ever go viral. Afrezza's odds of ever going viral via social media is slim to none. interestingly to this point... Adam Lasher had a tweet exchange with a PWD just today saying "Especially with only 4% lows and not having to count carbs or time dosings like with shots  " and "with inhaled ultra rapid insulin and a cgm, life gets wayyy easier " He has 4,610 people following his tweets... and of those two comments, one got one retweet and the other got four retweets. [and I would not all be surprised to find that those retweets were from investors in MNKD following Adam since he became known on Proboards] Granted some have many more followers on social media, but 4600 is nothing to sneeze at. I think this illustrates how little people consider disease treatment to be a topic of social media interest. I'm sure blogs, patient groups and social media can play some role in spreading awareness... but it will take concerted coordinated effort and it will be far more gradual than many would like to believe. |
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Post by BlueCat on Feb 11, 2016 15:58:01 GMT -5
And thats the stupidity (or intelligence) of SNY. They priced it at a premium to other RAA's, despite the fact that the label only showed that it wasnt inferior to other RAA's. It was over at the start. Though prior to the breakup, those defending SNY were proposing that the high pricing was part of how negotiations occurred with payers and the real price negotiated would be lower. One would have thought they would have it at parity, and then negotiate down. Last Fall we were all waiting for that 'most payers re-evaluate 6mos to 1 year after on market' for tier placement. My guess is that happened, and SNY refused to lower price, so nothing improved. Pure speculation only, of course. |
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Post by dreamboatcruise on Feb 11, 2016 16:06:15 GMT -5
Though prior to the breakup, those defending SNY were proposing that the high pricing was part of how negotiations occurred with payers and the real price negotiated would be lower. One would have thought they would have it at parity, and then negotiate down. Last Fall we were all waiting for that 'most payers re-evaluate 6mos to 1 year after on market' for tier placement. My guess is that happened, and SNY refused to lower price, so nothing improved. Pure speculation only, of course. SNY managed to get much better placement for Toujeo quicker than 6-12 months. That fact always made me leery about the assumption that better placement was almost inevitable merely with the passage of time. |
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Post by mindovermatter on Feb 11, 2016 17:49:05 GMT -5
A good point. The harsh reality is Adam Lasher is not a well known figure and that no one really cares about him and his diabetes other than those that might have the disease. Do you think some pre teen or teen age girl that lusts after him wants to read his tweets about how much he loves his Afrezza? What ever happened with Elizabeth Perkins? She tweeted once about it and then nothing ever again. Very few things ever go viral. Afrezza's odds of ever going viral via social media is slim to none. interestingly to this point... Adam Lasher had a tweet exchange with a PWD just today saying "Especially with only 4% lows and not having to count carbs or time dosings like with shots " and "with inhaled ultra rapid insulin and a cgm, life gets wayyy easier " He has 4,610 people following his tweets... and of those two comments, one got one retweet and the other got four retweets. [and I would not all be surprised to find that those retweets were from investors in MNKD following Adam since he became known on Proboards] Granted some have many more followers on social media, but 4600 is nothing to sneeze at. I think this illustrates how little people consider disease treatment to be a topic of social media interest. I'm sure blogs, patient groups and social media can play some role in spreading awareness... but it will take concerted coordinated effort and it will be far more gradual than many would like to believe. Placing one's focus on diabetes discussion groups shows that few if any are discussing Afrezza. Look at Tudiabetes or diabetesdaily. Not much talk about Afrezza. I am not on facecrook so I don't know if there is much there. Youtube. Nada. Matty has his vids but those only get so many views and he is the only one who has truly shown the power of Afrezza. Afrezzauser, from what I have been told, is working behind the scenes with other diabetics but that's still a small #. One can only hope that Mannkind can do the job that Sanofi couldn't. But if Sanofi couldn't get traction, its hard to believe Mannkind by itself will, especially considering it has a dwindling cash reserve that won't last the entire year. |
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Post by beardawg on Feb 11, 2016 17:58:52 GMT -5
And thats the stupidity (or intelligence) of SNY. They priced it at a premium to other RAA's, despite the fact that the label only showed that it wasnt inferior to other RAA's. It was over at the start. Though prior to the breakup, those defending SNY were proposing that the high pricing was part of how negotiations occurred with payers and the real price negotiated would be lower. I think the thought behind that was that the label improvement studies would be finished and then they could justify the higher price. Sanofi never did the studies, therefore it is now shown to be ridiculous of them to keep the price high. |
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" and "with inhaled ultra rapid insulin and a cgm, life gets wayyy easier 
