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Post by dreamboatcruise on Feb 10, 2016 21:45:28 GMT -5
I can easily believe that RLS has valid reasons for wanting to stay in stealth mode. I don't understand why there would be a need for the group/entity setting up the clinic to remain secretive. MNKD is talking about the concept, why can these folks not step forward and give more details such as where the first one will be. I would think they would already have to be working on the facility. Hate to say it but the lack of info less than two months from a supposed opening raises some skepticism about how solid those plans are.
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Post by seanismorris on Feb 10, 2016 22:13:56 GMT -5
There is no substantial evidence that the diabetes "clinics" mentioned are in any way related to RLS. The fact that RLS is in stealth mode shouldn't bother MNKD investors. Until there are actual milestone payments made they are irrelevant to MannKinds future.
The diabetes clinics aren't "Afrezza clinics" and they will only be entering into a trial stage. We don't even know if the idea will work, though the idea has promise. Anyone thinking that a few clinics open is going have a significant impact on Afrezza scripts is delusional. Someday perhaps...but that's years in the future.
We have had years of MannKind reporting that they've been approached by other companies to create TS formulations. Never have we heard even those companies names, and whatever work was done...nothing came of it.
MannKinds future depends upon reclaiming Afrezza rights and fixing the problems Sanofi never adequately addressed: pricing, insurance coverage, Afrezza Label, etc.
In the meantime we need TS Partnerships that pays the bills, but the problem is MannKind is desperate for cash and anything we get will likely be backloaded (milestone payments) like RLS. Partnerships with the TS prospects being developed in house have more potential for upfront cash but that's not in 2016.
We need to raise enough cash to see us though mid 2017...
I'm hoping for a juicy Sanofi 'settlement' otherwise MannKinds cash situation is accurately call desperate. New partnerships for Afrezza locally and internationally may get us there, but we are negotiating from weakness.
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Post by dreamboatcruise on Feb 10, 2016 22:32:28 GMT -5
seanismorris... sorry for confusion. I did not mean to imply I thought there was a link. Merely pointing out that I believe there are times when secrecy is not suspicious... i.e. RLS as a startup in stealth mode. I doubt anybody thinks a few clinics will send scripts shooting... after all, how many docs could there be and how many new patients could they see in one day? Not that I would assign a high probability of this actually being a positive, but I guess I'm hoping that maybe these clinics (which apparently will highlight Afrezza use if not called an "Afrezza clinic") will have some model that appears to be an improvement with the payer situation. I have a hard time imagining that anyone could develop a viable business plan around the idea of highlighting the use of a drug that either isn't available at all or requires significant extra work by staff to get coverage for 3/4 of patients... especially given that previous attempts at diabetes clinics even by seasoned hospitals have failed on financial terms because of lack of reimbursement.
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Post by sluggobear on Feb 10, 2016 23:34:14 GMT -5
Does Mannkind have only ONE chance to set the price right on April 5th?
Can they price it so low that cash pay is reasonable and not much more than a higher copay might be?
How many diabetics without insurance might buy Afrezza if it was affordable to them?
Can they leverage the opening of the NJ clinic to get publicity for Afrezza?
DBC - I think you asked in another thread whether simply setting the price very low (e.g. lower than all other RAA's) would trigger an "easy" path to insurance coverage. That is a good question; I am sure it is complicated and there is negotiation and kickbacks required with PBM's.
Maybe the poster know as "me" (Ranger) might know? He posted a good explanation of the role of PBM's in the pricing process.
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Post by figglebird on Feb 11, 2016 0:02:05 GMT -5
In case anyone has not already noticed the PRICE HAS ALREADY BEEN LOWERED retail wise - check out the limited online pharmacies that carry Afrezza and compare those pharmacy prices to novo and humalog - afrezza once sold 100-200$ dollars more per avg - now being sold 100$ less on avg.
And most of the online retail pharmacies that don't carry afrezza are also selling novo and humalog for a 100$more.
JUST GOOGLE AFREZZA RETAIL PRICING.
This has been a chess match for 9 months and nearly every day another move is made - sometimes folks pick up on it but much goes unnoticed.
Nothing new just informing - nothing new.
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Post by kc on Feb 11, 2016 0:28:37 GMT -5
In case anyone has not already noticed the PRICE HAS ALREADY BEEN LOWERED retail wise - check out the limited online pharmacies that carry Afrezza and compare those pharmacy prices to novo and humalog - afrezza once sold 100-200$ dollars more per avg - now being sold 100$ less on avg. And most of the online retail pharmacies that don't carry afrezza are also selling novo and humalog for a 100$more. JUST GOOGLE AFREZZA RETAIL PRICING. This has been a chess match for 9 months and nearly every day another move is made - sometimes folks pick up on it but much goes unnoticed. Nothing new just informing - nothing new. You are correct its been awhile since I check the pricing on some of the major sites but GOODRX had the following for the St. Louis metro area. Seems that pricing had dropped.
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Post by benh on Feb 11, 2016 1:45:00 GMT -5
This is for 90cart 4u.
Early 2015:
Prices reported for the 4 unit 90 cartridge range from Cardinal Health's $215 to $269.99 at CVS.
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Post by peppy on Feb 11, 2016 6:12:48 GMT -5
In case anyone has not already noticed the PRICE HAS ALREADY BEEN LOWERED retail wise - check out the limited online pharmacies that carry Afrezza and compare those pharmacy prices to novo and humalog - afrezza once sold 100-200$ dollars more per avg - now being sold 100$ less on avg. And most of the online retail pharmacies that don't carry afrezza are also selling novo and humalog for a 100$more. JUST GOOGLE AFREZZA RETAIL PRICING. This has been a chess match for 9 months and nearly every day another move is made - sometimes folks pick up on it but much goes unnoticed. Nothing new just informing - nothing new. You are correct its been awhile since I check the pricing on some of the major sites but GOODRX had the following for the St. Louis metro area. Seems that pricing had dropped.
240 dollars / 30 days = 8 dollars a day not really much change
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Post by agedhippie on Feb 11, 2016 8:42:03 GMT -5
240 dollars / 30 days = 8 dollars a day not really much change
Maybe not much change but Afrezza is comparable now cheaper than Humalog in St. Louis by $30! |
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Post by agedhippie on Feb 11, 2016 8:46:10 GMT -5
To stay on topic though. Who are the clinics market for diabetes? In an emergency you are going to ER or calling an ambulance. For normal treatment why would you not just use your doctor? Arguably the clinic may be more knowledgeable than the average doctor but how bad does the doctor need to be before you would use the clinic.
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Post by kball on Feb 11, 2016 9:05:07 GMT -5
I have a hard time gaming this out too.
Not that it won't maybe give Afrezza slightly more visibility, But for folks thinking it'll be like a pot dispensary with lines out the door to try something new, i just don't see it.
That said, since Baba posted it involves forum members, i hope they can make it successful, as they are most familiar with the product, the company, and the difficulties up to this point with everything that has gone on.
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Post by mindovermatter on Feb 11, 2016 9:06:58 GMT -5
240 dollars / 30 days = 8 dollars a day not really much change
Maybe not much change but Afrezza is comparable now cheaper than Humalog in St. Louis by $30! You can make Afrezza free but if no one is aware of it then it won't matter. Mannkind has a lot of ground to make up and the question is whether or not Matt and his staff have the wherewithal to right a lot of wrongs. As for the clinics, I'd have someone dress up as a dream boat and stand out side the clinic waving at drivers. |
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Post by saxcmann on Feb 11, 2016 9:16:35 GMT -5
You can make Afrezza free but if no one is aware of it then it won't matter.
Actually agree with your sentence above...
At this point I am not believing the value of Afrezza can be realized while mnkd holds the drug. Afrezza needs promotion.
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Post by mnholdem on Feb 11, 2016 10:05:09 GMT -5
To stay on topic though. Who are the clinics market for diabetes? In an emergency you are going to ER or calling an ambulance. For normal treatment why would you not just use your doctor? Arguably the clinic may be more knowledgeable than the average doctor but how bad does the doctor need to be before you would use the clinic. Urgent Care Centers are springing up all over in the Twin Cities (St. Paul & Minneapolis, Minnesota). They fit in between the two examples you noted, namely, Hospital ERs (Emergency Rooms) and Family/Specialty Clinics.
The Urgent Care clinic is where you might go because your doctor isn't available, such as weekends when your kid gets hurt/sick and the family care clinic is closed and/or because you cannot get a timely appointment.
Because of a shortage, the typical waiting list to get an appointment to see an endocrinologist or diabetologist is quite lengthy (some members have posted that it took them months to get in). Because of this, you begin to see the thinking behind the Diabetes Care Centers being affiliated with Urgent Care Centers.
The Diabetes Care Centers will enable diabetics to see a specialist faster than it may take to schedule an endocrinologist. Plus, from a marketing viewpoint, an early diabetic may be more inclined to schedule with a "Diabetes Care" center than to schedule with their family practitioner who doesn't specialize in that branch of medicine. Family doctors, themselves, may eventually be referring their patients to a local Diabetes Care Center if they know of one.
I imagine that the new centers will be mass mailing PCP's to make them aware of their existence. 
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2016 10:18:56 GMT -5
To stay on topic though. Who are the clinics market for diabetes? In an emergency you are going to ER or calling an ambulance. For normal treatment why would you not just use your doctor? Arguably the clinic may be more knowledgeable than the average doctor but how bad does the doctor need to be before you would use the clinic. Urgent Care Centers are springing up all over in the Twin Cities (St. Paul & Minneapolis, Minnesota). They fit in between the two examples you noted, namely, Hospital ERs (Emergency Rooms) and Family/Specialty Clinics.
The Urgent Care clinic is where you might go because your doctor isn't available, such as weekends when your kid gets hurt/sick and the family care clinic is closed and/or because you cannot get a timely appointment.
Because of a shortage, the typical waiting list to get an appointment to see an endocrinologist or diabetologist is quite lengthy (some members have posted that it took them months to get in). Because of this, you begin to see the thinking behind the Diabetes Care Centers being affiliated with Urgent Care Centers.
The Diabetes Care Centers will enable diabetics to see a specialist faster than it may take to schedule an endocrinologist. Plus, from a marketing viewpoint, an early diabetic may be more inclined to schedule with a "Diabetes Care" center than to schedule with their family practitioner who doesn't specialize in that branch of medicine. Family doctors, themselves, may eventually be referring their patients to a local Diabetes Care Center if they know of one.
I imagine that the new centers will be mass mailing PCP's to make them aware of their existence.
I live in NYC (queens) we have had four pop in our neighborhood. Two of them are on a street that has some of the most expensive rent in Queens. I go to urgent care over my regular DR for certain things because I hate sitting in a waiting room for 90 minutes for a physical. |
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