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Post by jbe on Mar 20, 2016 12:15:03 GMT -5
It still comes down to price, if the pens are half the price of Afrezza and insurance covers the price of pens better than Afrezza, then the general population will prefer the pens.
Diabetes is an expensive illness, balancing cost vs benefits is a prime consideration.
However, once MNKD regains control, it CAN cut the price of Afrezza in half and still make more profit than the 35% deal they had with Sanofi.
Afrezza is clearly a great product, if MNKD can stay in business for another year, it will prove to be a great investment AND a diabetic lifesaver.
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Post by kball on Mar 20, 2016 12:42:15 GMT -5
The impact of the VDEX centers will be far greater than the centers themselves. I lived in NJ for more decades than I would like to count. NJ has an extremely dense population and quite a few wrinkle cities with tons of T2s concentrated in a small area. "Joe" is a diabetic in LEISURE VILLAGE (no joke..real name). Joe plays cards every Friday night with 5 buddies, 3 of which are either diabetic or who have wives who are diabetic. Joe goes to VDEC and gets Afrezza. Now we all know how well it works, so suddenly we have 12 new people who know about Afrezza. Since MNKD is also going to flood the area with reps, all the other docs are going to know about Afrezza too. So...1 of Joes buddies may go into VDEC, the others are all going to demand their own docs give them Afrezza too. So, it won't depend upon VDEC alone. They will have 400 scripts a week, but all the people influenced by VDEC Will be 4000 new scripts a week. Thank you VDEC for getting the ball rolling! Let's hope the same isn't used to describe this board one day? I'm not feeling to bright even with the run up (especially after selling some before it) |
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Post by patten1962 on Mar 20, 2016 19:47:00 GMT -5
The impact of the VDEX centers will be far greater than the centers themselves. I lived in NJ for more decades than I would like to count. NJ has an extremely dense population and quite a few wrinkle cities with tons of T2s concentrated in a small area. "Joe" is a diabetic in LEISURE VILLAGE (no joke..real name). Joe plays cards every Friday night with 5 buddies, 3 of which are either diabetic or who have wives who are diabetic. Joe goes to VDEC and gets Afrezza. Now we all know how well it works, so suddenly we have 12 new people who know about Afrezza. Since MNKD is also going to flood the area with reps, all the other docs are going to know about Afrezza too. So...1 of Joes buddies may go into VDEC, the others are all going to demand their own docs give them Afrezza too. So, it won't depend upon VDEC alone. They will have 400 scripts a week, but all the people influenced by VDEC Will be 4000 new scripts a week. Thank you VDEC for getting the ball rolling! Sue Great post! Remember if these clinics are using Afrezza and we get positive patient outcomes this is very important. Now MannKind can post articles in the New England Journal of Medicine and other National magazines and periodicals that doctors read. This will be the most important advertising that we can do. They sell more than any TV ad could ever sell |
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Post by nylefty on Mar 20, 2016 19:53:58 GMT -5
We desperately need tv advertising .. Without it, it's going to be painfully slow uptake. We still need more insurance coverage before TV ads would pay off. The only way we'll get more insurance coverage is to lower the price of Afrezza. That will be doable as soon as we're free from Sanofi. |
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Post by od on Mar 20, 2016 19:55:46 GMT -5
The impact of the VDEX centers will be far greater than the centers themselves. I lived in NJ for more decades than I would like to count. NJ has an extremely dense population and quite a few wrinkle cities with tons of T2s concentrated in a small area. "Joe" is a diabetic in LEISURE VILLAGE (no joke..real name). Joe plays cards every Friday night with 5 buddies, 3 of which are either diabetic or who have wives who are diabetic. Joe goes to VDEC and gets Afrezza. Now we all know how well it works, so suddenly we have 12 new people who know about Afrezza. Since MNKD is also going to flood the area with reps, all the other docs are going to know about Afrezza too. So...1 of Joes buddies may go into VDEC, the others are all going to demand their own docs give them Afrezza too. So, it won't depend upon VDEC alone. They will have 400 scripts a week, but all the people influenced by VDEC Will be 4000 new scripts a week. Thank you VDEC for getting the ball rolling! ...Now MannKind can post articles in the New England Journal of Medicine and other National magazines and periodicals that doctors read.... patten, sorry I am lost. MNKD posting articles in the New England Journal of Medicine based on Vdex uptake? Please share your thinking in detail. Pharmaceutical companies do not post articles in peer reviewed journals. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 20, 2016 20:02:43 GMT -5
...Now MannKind can post articles in the New England Journal of Medicine and other National magazines and periodicals that doctors read.... patten, sorry I am lost. MNKD posting articles in the New England Journal of Medicine based on Vdex uptake? Please share your thinking in detail. Pharmaceutical companies do not post articles in peer reviewed journals. but can they send #afrezza hash tag twitter channel to NEJM? |
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Post by patten1962 on Mar 20, 2016 20:06:36 GMT -5
...Now MannKind can post articles in the New England Journal of Medicine and other National magazines and periodicals that doctors read.... patten, sorry I am lost. MNKD posting articles in the New England Journal of Medicine based on Vdex uptake? Please share your thinking in detail. Pharmaceutical companies do not post articles in peer reviewed journals. Sorry about that you are correct. I'm not sure about the exact path but usually a physician that is hired by a specific company will usually be the one in charge of a study. These Physicians will write articles and post results about a specific Med and how patients do. If VDEX can show positive patient outcomes the Physicians that are running these clinics can write articles and hopefully publish them so they would be in periodicals that doctors would read. This is very important to Physicians because many of them will not use the medication until they see a positive patient outcome. SUEBEE's comment about the Salesforce is very true, very hard to sell a drug even with the biggest sales force if you don't have proof of a positive patient outcome. And yes I am aware that we already have these outcomes but more is better. |
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Post by nylefty on Mar 20, 2016 20:08:02 GMT -5
....So, it won't depend upon VDEC alone. They will have 400 scripts a week, but all the people influenced by VDEC Will be 4000 new scripts a week. Thank you VDEC for getting the ball rolling!+ Sue Great post! Remember if these clinics are using Afrezza and we get positive patient outcomes this is very important. Now MannKind can post articles in the New England Journal of Medicine and other National magazines and periodicals that doctors read. This will be the most important advertising that we can do. They sell more than any TV ad could ever sell As a retired journalist I winced when I read the above. Drug companies can't "post articles" in reputable magazines and other periodicals. But lets hope some reputable journalists and/or physicians write such articles.
Edit: I wrote the above before I saw similar comments from others. |
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Post by od on Mar 20, 2016 20:14:05 GMT -5
patten, sorry I am lost. MNKD posting articles in the New England Journal of Medicine based on Vdex uptake? Please share your thinking in detail. Pharmaceutical companies do not post articles in peer reviewed journals. Sorry about that you are correct. I'm not sure about the exact path but usually a physician that is hired by a specific company will usually be the one in charge of a study. These Physicians will write articles and post results about a specific Med and how patients do. If VDEX can show positive patient outcomes the Physicians that are running these clinics can write articles and hopefully publish them so they would be in periodicals that doctors would read. This is very important to Physicians because many of them will not use the medication until they see a positive patient outcome. SUEBEE's comment about the Salesforce is very true, very hard to sell a drug even with the biggest sales force if you don't have proof of a positive patient outcome. And yes I am aware that we already have these outcomes but more is better. I hope I am not inviting a barrage of anger, but...I think it it more likely that a random high-school freshman will be accepted at Harvard, then a positive Afrezza study that has not yet been started will be published in the New England Journal of Medicine. You bet, I believe in a big Afrezza future, but let's remain on planet earth. |
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Post by patten1962 on Mar 20, 2016 20:15:27 GMT -5
Sue Great post! Remember if these clinics are using Afrezza and we get positive patient outcomes this is very important. Now MannKind can post articles in the New England Journal of Medicine and other National magazines and periodicals that doctors read. This will be the most important advertising that we can do. They sell more than any TV ad could ever sell As a retired journalist I winced when I read the above. Drug companies can't "post articles" in reputable magazines and other periodicals. But lets hope some reputable journalists and/or physicians write such articles. Sorry guys. That's what I ment. I know Mannkind can not write the article. |
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Post by mindovermatter on Mar 21, 2016 7:04:05 GMT -5
Considering the horrifically low script numbers that exist today, one would think it will help % wise if the center is successful, but I think many are putting a bit too much faith in thinking it will be a smashing success just as many did thinking Afrezza would be with Sanofi behind it. A more sober approach is needed but I forget this is a message board and that typically never happens.
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Post by jerrys on Mar 21, 2016 12:42:46 GMT -5
Posted this previously but wanted to get some more opinions so created a new thread. I did a little calculation on the potential VDEX impact to script numbers. Hours of operation: 8 to 8 = 12 Days per week: 6 Staffing Doc: 1 Staffing Nurse: 2 ( initial asses & spiro test) Reception: 1 Admin: 1 (insurance processing) Avg Appointment w Nurse: 30 min Avg Review/Script Issue w Doc: 15 min Weekly max new scripts is restricted be the doc at approx: 72 × 4 = 288 Annual Scripts w one Doc: 14400 (Trx + Nrx) Now need to knock off the count: Not there for Afrezza Related: 50% (guess) not applicable (COPD + Smoker): 10% (guess) Affordability: 15% (lowered price 2600 /yr) Leaves 25% or 3600 scripts annually or approx 72 scripts per week. (Previous estimate was 1300 annually). The point of this estimation (feel free to play with the numbers) is that one VDEX outlet is not going to make that much of a difference to the script count. OOG So you're looking at a yearly cost around $150,000 for the doc, $100,000 for two nurses, $75,000 for reception and insurance people, plus benefits cost of maybe $75,000? Total is $400,000, so it would need revenues of $8,000 a week just for that. That doesn't include the cost of malpractice insurance which could upwards of $50,000. And are they paying any kind of rent for these places? So you'd need 8,000-10,000 a week just to break even? Even charging $100 a patient that's upwards to 20 patients per day. From just diabetics? That sort of stretches my imagination to its limit. |
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Post by 4allthemarbles on Mar 22, 2016 11:35:11 GMT -5
Most small businesses lose money in the first year. The people setting these clinics up are smart guys and I am sure they are prepared for the overhead costs. That said, I think your Doctor's costs are going to be higher. Another example of why I don't run a diabetes clinic.
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Post by otherottawaguy on Mar 22, 2016 17:02:51 GMT -5
Wasn't attempting to cost out the ops only trying to estimate the max patient throughput.
Be interested to know if 15min would be enough for the Doc to be able to review the file and issue a script on an New RX and if the same effort would be required?
Not sure if there might be a requirement for an Endo on call or even if the Nurse could issue a refill script.
OOG
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Post by nylefty on Mar 22, 2016 20:01:26 GMT -5
Wasn't attempting to cost out the ops only trying to estimate the max patient throughput. Be interested to know if 15min would be enough for the Doc to be able to review the file and issue a script on an New RX and if the same effort would be required? Not sure if there might be a requirement for an Endo on call or even if the Nurse could issue a refill script. OOG There's no requirement to have an endo on call, although Vdex has said that they will have one. Any licensed physician or nurse practitioner can issue prescriptions for Afrezza. In most states physician assistants can also write prescriptions. |
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