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Post by lakon on Apr 6, 2016 15:19:57 GMT -5
The patent for Afrezza is only good until 2020. I don't know how much that patent protects, whether that be just the binding of insulin to FDKP, the manufacturing process, etc. There are ways to extend patents to give us more time with it, but depending on how much the patent protects, it might be possible that Afrezza will be fairly worthless in just 4 years if a competing generic becomes available. I have no idea if a generic manufacturer will sink in the money necessary to figure out FDKP, but it's a possibility. Point is, Afrezza probably shouldn't be looked to as a long-term solution for money. I wouldn't mind selling it off at this point if it will help us develop the rest of our portfolio. It'd almost make sense to get what we can for it and move on, depending on how difficult it is to get market acceptance. Of course, no one will want it if 2 tries were made and still no uptake. I don't have time nor the inclination to explain. If you believe what you wrote, you should have sold and walked away. MNKD has around 1000 patents. In 90 yrs, nobody else ever did what MNKD did over the course of 15 yrs or so. RLS just did a deal with MNKD for know-how. Amphastar's primary business is producing generics that are HARD to make. Coincidence? Give me a break. No offense, but based on your postings, you are still in school. Real world experience could help you a lot. Good luck. Sincerely. I'm not worried. As Al Mann said, reaching 400 million diabetics IS the challenge that remains. That will be BILLIONS in revenue per year, not just one. On topic, SNY has no rights of refusal for anything after termination completes. MNKD has debt obligations to SNY. That's all. |
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Post by mnholdem on Apr 6, 2016 15:21:27 GMT -5
I did a little digging and it would appear that if MannKind Corporation does sell it's Valencia facility (currently I cannot find a listing other than Available for Lease) the sale should generate more than sufficient cash to pay off the Sanofi loan:
Sale History
25134 Rye Canyon Loop, Valencia, CA 91355
Date: 11/18/2014
Event: Sold
Price: $98,405,000
Price/sq.ft. $1,437
Source: Public Records
Tax History
| Year | 2015 | 2014 | 2013 | | Taxes | $658,318 (+1.40%) | $306,614 (+1.65%) | $303,138 (+1.64%) | | Land | $27,680,000 | $16,148,181 | $16,075,200 | | Improvements | $19,200,000 | $2,336,680 | $2,326,120 | | Assessment | $46,880,000 | $18,484,861 | $18,401,320 |
Notice the jump in value in 2015 due to improvements?
Source: www.homefacts.com/address/California/Los-Angeles-County/Valencia/91355/25134-Rye-Canyon-Loop/219274086.html
Regardless, based on comments made by CEO Matt Pfeffer, published today (see Articles) concerning marketing Afrezza, it certainly doesn't sound like MannKind Corporation has any plans to sell the company or the rights to Afrezza. This post is relevant simply because as long as Aventisub LLC retains a second priority interest in the drug Afrezza, they have the legal right to block any sale of the drug Afrezza until their loan to MannKind is paid in full.
So IMHO Sanofi no longer has the Right of Refusal, otherwise known as the right to outbid any company for Afrezza or other TS diabetes drug, since the L&C Agreement is now terminated. However, Sanofi/Aventisub can still be a thorn in MannKind's side by refusing to allow Afrezza be sold until its loan to MannKind is paid in full. Deerfield can claim the same right with its first priority interest.
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So I say, what the hell, Matt & Mike, go ahead and make Afrezza into a blockbuster, so you can pay off the loan(s) and get these monkeys off your back.  
Perhaps Afrezza will NEVER be sold.
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Post by kc on Apr 6, 2016 15:57:42 GMT -5
The jumping value was due to the sale in 2014
Sale History
25134 Rye Canyon Loop, Valencia, CA 91355
Date: 11/18/2014
Event: Sold
Price: $98,405,000
Price/sq.ft. $1,437
Source: Public Records
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Post by stevil on Apr 6, 2016 15:58:45 GMT -5
The patent for Afrezza is only good until 2020. I don't know how much that patent protects, whether that be just the binding of insulin to FDKP, the manufacturing process, etc. There are ways to extend patents to give us more time with it, but depending on how much the patent protects, it might be possible that Afrezza will be fairly worthless in just 4 years if a competing generic becomes available. I have no idea if a generic manufacturer will sink in the money necessary to figure out FDKP, but it's a possibility. Point is, Afrezza probably shouldn't be looked to as a long-term solution for money. I wouldn't mind selling it off at this point if it will help us develop the rest of our portfolio. It'd almost make sense to get what we can for it and move on, depending on how difficult it is to get market acceptance. Of course, no one will want it if 2 tries were made and still no uptake. I don't have time nor the inclination to explain. If you believe what you wrote, you should have sold and walked away. MNKD has around 1000 patents. In 90 yrs, nobody else ever did what MNKD did over the course of 15 yrs or so. RLS just did a deal with MNKD for know-how. Amphastar's primary business is producing generics that are HARD to make. Coincidence? Give me a break. No offense, but based on your postings, you are still in school. Real world experience could help you a lot. Good luck. Sincerely. I'm not worried. As Al Mann said, reaching 400 million diabetics IS the challenge that remains. That will be BILLIONS in revenue per year, not just one. On topic, SNY has no rights of refusal for anything after termination completes. MNKD has debt obligations to SNY. That's all. No offense taken by you or anyone else on here. I'm not looking for validation on here nor am i bruised by internet tough guys. What I was saying is that the patents will no longer protect Afrezza. Note the sentence - I have no idea if a generic manufacturer... I didn't say that it would happen. i simply stated it could. Make no mistake, if Afrezza ever takes off, and a generic manufacturer wants to figure it out and thinks it would be a good business decision, they will figure it out. Al Mann wasn't the only intelligent human being to ever walk the earth. With all the data in the world being collected into databases, learning is accelerated. Chemistry/biochemistry isn't that much of a mystery. We know how molecules interact and bind. It's only a matter of time in figuring out the process. Look at the nuclear weapon for reference. USA is not the only country with it anymore. It might take a while to figure it out, but if someone has the money to do it, it will happen. The only countries that don't have nukes are the ones that can't afford to develop them. |
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Post by stevil on Apr 6, 2016 16:21:39 GMT -5
If I'm wrong I don't mind being called out. This board takes things way too personally sometimes. I'm not aware of what all MNKD has patented or how they've protected themselves.
For instance, the dreamboat is needed to produce the proper aerodynamics to reach the lungs. Without it, it's possible the FDKP molecule wouldn't reach its target. Now, I'm not a physicist, but I'd imagine this would be a surmountable hurdle, but it'd certainly buy MNKD additional time as whatever generic manufacturer that tried to solve the FDKP problem would also have to solve that one, requiring additional time and money. I don't know how hard that is to do, or how expensive it will end up being for that company, but very few problems in life are "impossible".
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Post by mydogskip on Apr 6, 2016 17:07:38 GMT -5
If I'm wrong I don't mind being called out. This board takes things way too personally sometimes. I'm not aware of what all MNKD has patented or how they've protected themselves. For instance, the dreamboat is needed to produce the proper aerodynamics to reach the lungs. Without it, it's possible the FDKP molecule wouldn't reach its target. Now, I'm not a physicist, but I'd imagine this would be a surmountable hurdle, but it'd certainly buy MNKD additional time as whatever generic manufacturer that tried to solve the FDKP problem would also have to solve that one, requiring additional time and money. I don't know how hard that is to do, or how expensive it will end up being for that company, but very few problems in life are "impossible". Dreamboat is not needed. I have read tweets where the cartridge alone was inhaled to get the insulin when the diabetic forgot to bring the inhale device. I am sure it was awkward for them but both said it worked. |
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Post by daduke38 on Apr 6, 2016 17:15:48 GMT -5
The patent for Afrezza is only good until 2020. I don't know how much that patent protects, whether that be just the binding of insulin to FDKP, the manufacturing process, etc. There are ways to extend patents to give us more time with it, but depending on how much the patent protects, it might be possible that Afrezza will be fairly worthless in just 4 years if a competing generic becomes available. I have no idea if a generic manufacturer will sink in the money necessary to figure out FDKP, but it's a possibility. Point is, Afrezza probably shouldn't be looked to as a long-term solution for money. I wouldn't mind selling it off at this point if it will help us develop the rest of our portfolio. It'd almost make sense to get what we can for it and move on, depending on how difficult it is to get market acceptance. Of course, no one will want it if 2 tries were made and still no uptake. Are you sure that is right about 2020? That doesn't seem right , but I can't remember for sure. Also, to be honest, you don't seem too sure?  ? |
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Post by brotherm1 on Apr 6, 2016 17:32:59 GMT -5
I did a little digging and it would appear that if MannKind Corporation does sell it's Valencia facility (currently I cannot find a listing other than Available for Lease) the sale should generate more than sufficient cash to pay off the Sanofi loan:
Sale History
25134 Rye Canyon Loop, Valencia, CA 91355
Date: 11/18/2014
Event: Sold
Price: $98,405,000
Price/sq.ft. $1,437
Source: Public Records
Tax History
| Year | 2015 | 2014 | 2013 | | Taxes | $658,318 (+1.40%) | $306,614 (+1.65%) | $303,138 (+1.64%) | | Land | $27,680,000 | $16,148,181 | $16,075,200 | | Improvements | $19,200,000 | $2,336,680 | $2,326,120 | | Assessment | $46,880,000 | $18,484,861 | $18,401,320 |
Notice the jump in value in 2015 due to improvements?
Source: www.homefacts.com/address/California/Los-Angeles-County/Valencia/91355/25134-Rye-Canyon-Loop/219274086.html
Regardless, based on comments made by CEO Matt Pfeffer, published today (see Articles) concerning marketing Afrezza, it certainly doesn't sound like MannKind Corporation has any plans to sell the company or the rights to Afrezza. This post is relevant simply because as long as Aventisub LLC retains a second priority interest in the drug Afrezza, they have the legal right to block any sale of the drug Afrezza until their loan to MannKind is paid in full.
So IMHO Sanofi no longer has the Right of Refusal, otherwise known as the right to outbid any company for Afrezza or other TS diabetes drug, since the L&C Agreement is now terminated. However, Sanofi/Aventisub can still be a thorn in MannKind's side by refusing to allow Afrezza be sold until its loan to MannKind is paid in full. Deerfield can claim the same right with its first priority interest.
---
So I say, what the hell, Matt & Mike, go ahead and make Afrezza into a blockbuster, so you can pay off the loan(s) and get these monkeys off your back.
Perhaps Afrezza will NEVER be sold.
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Post by brotherm1 on Apr 6, 2016 17:33:52 GMT -5
that is very interesting. I wonder if the mtg is pAid?
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Post by stevil on Apr 6, 2016 18:53:58 GMT -5
The patent for Afrezza is only good until 2020. I don't know how much that patent protects, whether that be just the binding of insulin to FDKP, the manufacturing process, etc. There are ways to extend patents to give us more time with it, but depending on how much the patent protects, it might be possible that Afrezza will be fairly worthless in just 4 years if a competing generic becomes available. I have no idea if a generic manufacturer will sink in the money necessary to figure out FDKP, but it's a possibility. Point is, Afrezza probably shouldn't be looked to as a long-term solution for money. I wouldn't mind selling it off at this point if it will help us develop the rest of our portfolio. It'd almost make sense to get what we can for it and move on, depending on how difficult it is to get market acceptance. Of course, no one will want it if 2 tries were made and still no uptake. Are you sure that is right about 2020? That doesn't seem right , but I can't remember for sure. Also, to be honest, you don't seem too sure? ? I try to only be "sure" of the things I'm really "sure" about. I apologize sometimes for sounding more sure than I am on some things. I try to delineate between when I know what I'm talking about and when I'm unsure, but sometimes I state things rather than asking questions... So, to answer your question, I'm not "sure" that 2020 is the correct date because I haven't really done a ton of research. I found a site that said 2020. Just google Afrezza patent expiration date and you'll hopefully find a source you trust. I've linked the one below that told me 2020. Since it's a pro Afrezza site, I would assume it was accurate. www.gurufocus.com/news/253025/time-to-gamble-on-mannkinds-afrezza |
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Post by anderson on Apr 6, 2016 19:07:23 GMT -5
The patent for Afrezza is only good until 2020. I don't know how much that patent protects, whether that be just the binding of insulin to FDKP, the manufacturing process, etc. There are ways to extend patents to give us more time with it, but depending on how much the patent protects, it might be possible that Afrezza will be fairly worthless in just 4 years if a competing generic becomes available. I have no idea if a generic manufacturer will sink in the money necessary to figure out FDKP, but it's a possibility. Point is, Afrezza probably shouldn't be looked to as a long-term solution for money. I wouldn't mind selling it off at this point if it will help us develop the rest of our portfolio. It'd almost make sense to get what we can for it and move on, depending on how difficult it is to get market acceptance. Of course, no one will want it if 2 tries were made and still no uptake. Are you sure that is right about 2020? That doesn't seem right , but I can't remember for sure. Also, to be honest, you don't seem too sure? ? United States Patent 7,648,960 Method for delivery of monomeric or dimeric insulin complexed to diketopiperazine microparticles Filed: November 21, 2003. So 20 years from Filing date would be 2023, not 2020. Good catch. |
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Post by stevil on Apr 6, 2016 19:17:00 GMT -5
Thank you!
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Post by nylefty on Apr 6, 2016 20:45:37 GMT -5
Are you sure that is right about 2020? That doesn't seem right , but I can't remember for sure. Also, to be honest, you don't seem too sure? ? I try to only be "sure" of the things I'm really "sure" about. If you try to be sure of things you're really sure about you shouldn't me making flat statements such as "The patent for Afrezza is only good until 2020," especially when your only source is an obscure Internet site that you "assumed" was correct. I was concerned that your flat statement might be true and am relieved that it's not. |
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Post by stevil on Apr 6, 2016 20:58:56 GMT -5
I try to only be "sure" of the things I'm really "sure" about. If you try to be sure of things you're really sure about you shouldn't me making flat statements such as "The patent for Afrezza is only good until 2020," especially when your only source is an obscure Internet site that you "assumed" was correct. I was concerned that your flat statement might be true and am relieved that it's not. I was starting to worry you'd forgotten about me. If you'd have kept reading, you'd have seen where I stated later in the post you referenced that I wasn't sure about the patent date. I never claimed it was a certitude. That's the value of this board. To share information and see what others think. It's not productive at all to harass others. No one wants to read it and it's just a waste of everyone's time, mostly the moderators that have to read all our garbage. If I truly did worry you in any way, I apologize. I'd like to put our differences behind us and not get into it in every thread, so I hope you can help me make that not happen, again for the sake of our moderators and everyone else that has to read this. If you want to get into a sparring match, go ahead and pm me. I can't promise a timely response, but at least we can throw a few jabs back and forth for funzies. It is important to me to get my facts straight because I want to be seen as a credible person. If people choose to disregard my position, that's one thing, but I want to at least force them to think outside the box a little bit. But by all means, always do your own research. Don't rely on other people for that. I didn't think getting a patent date correct was all that hard for an online publication, but apparently they don't value their readers enough to get their facts straight. |
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Post by brotherm1 on Apr 6, 2016 21:30:51 GMT -5
very good news about the patent expiration. thanks all.
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