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Post by hankscorpio7 on Apr 21, 2016 12:37:26 GMT -5
Beating a dead horse? You make a thread on TS epi and lots of links- but nothing about why it isn't a great plan for a company on its last legs? Old info. Like last year old? Ok. Well, they were still farther ahead so a decent model of problems in the space. And it is on hold or they gave up. If MNKD was at a different stage, maybe you could factor a TS epi into their SP. At this stage, it would be cash negative for years. It seems an eerily similar argument to Afrezza, and we know the effects that black box has had. Where is the link to AMPH financial report? I glanced at it and see declining profits and access to ~$30m. Point is- any joint efforts with MNKD will probably not involve upfront payment. I am hoping I missed something other then they could dilute their own stock. Will TS epi help MNKD out of its current situ? I vote no. When flush with cash, sure why not... Part of the spiral MNKD is in also deals with how other companies will work with you. The deals MNKD needs to survive will not come cheap.
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Post by lakon on Apr 21, 2016 13:21:44 GMT -5
Again, off the cuff, I think that the inhaled epi has great appeal and would turn out to be the main thing most carry after they have been used for some time and proven to work. One of the big advantages of the inhaled version is that people would use it a lot more than a needle, as a protective measure or whenever they think they might have ingested a potential allergent. It would be a far better way to protect because it eliminates the undesired injection that might not be needed. I would venture a guess that the inhaled version would be used as much as 10 times more than the injectable version once its benefits are known and understood. Is there any medical basis to support your opinion? Is it really safe or wise to take epinephrine just as a protective measure? Or to dose yourself 10 times more than necessary? I've no idea, but I have my doubts. I have to say if I am going to carry just one device, I would carry the pen to be safe. Because someone else can always inject me, or I can still inject myself, on those occasions an attack is causing breathing difficulties that would prevent inhaled epi from being used. I have an idea so YES, YES, and YES. If you follow the link provided by anderson, you would know that too many are still dying because of waiting too long to dose too little too late with multiple EpiPens. I recommend reading instead of writing.
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Post by lakon on Apr 21, 2016 13:55:06 GMT -5
Beating a dead horse? You make a thread on TS epi and lots of links- but nothing about why it isn't a great plan for a company on its last legs? Old info. Like last year old? Ok. Well, they were still farther ahead so a decent model of problems in the space. And it is on hold or they gave up. If MNKD was at a different stage, maybe you could factor a TS epi into their SP. At this stage, it would be cash negative for years. It seems an eerily similar argument to Afrezza, and we know the effects that black box has had. Where is the link to AMPH financial report? I glanced at it and see declining profits and access to ~$30m. Point is- any joint efforts with MNKD will probably not involve upfront payment. I am hoping I missed something other then they could dilute their own stock. Will TS epi help MNKD out of its current situ? I vote no. When flush with cash, sure why not... Part of the spiral MNKD is in also deals with how other companies will work with you. The deals MNKD needs to survive will not come cheap. I think it's a great plan. I said so. If you don't, I don't care. Make a reasonable argument, and then, I'd pay attention. I gave you credit for bringing up Civitas. If you can show that I am wrong about them, go for it! I'm just tired of people talking smack and poking holes with fragile arguments. Do your own work, and maybe you will impress me. Don't complain about lots of links [FYI] on one hand and then complain about not being spoon fed a financial report. I said to go listen to the AMPH conference calls. There is good stuff in there. A lot can change in a year. MNKD demonstrates that routinely. So does AMPH. Again, it's easy to say someone is farther ahead. BS. You don't know because it's not a straight line and they are not following the same path. Where is it? Farther ahead. Okay. You also have no idea where MNKD really is relative to where Civitas/Acorda was within the search space. I am still glad that you brought it up. We just differ in how we assess the situation. That's fine. Nope. We do NOT know the effects of the black box to any significant amount. After the second launch, a proper launch, we can revisit the hypothesis. The warnings are not that onerous to someone knowledgeable, like a doctor should be. You missed a lot wrt AMPH, but that's okay. Keep trying. I never said that they would provide cash or anything. They could provide insulin. That would be an innovative arrangement... Epi is about the future in a year or so, not the current cash situation. That is about to be solved by something else. The market is forward looking. Of course, it cannot see beyond the current cash report until IT DOES! Spiral.
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Post by mnkdfann on Apr 21, 2016 13:58:10 GMT -5
The link supports being proactive. Nothing at the link says to dose yourself 10 times more than necessary. Evidence given at the link also suggests overdosing of the sort suggested in the earlier post would be dangerous for many.
In any case, If I carried only one device I would still go for a pen over an inhaler for the reasons given earlier.
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Post by mnholdem on Apr 21, 2016 13:58:51 GMT -5
Beating a dead horse? You make a thread on TS epi and lots of links- but nothing about why it isn't a great plan for a company on its last legs?Old info. Like last year old? Ok. Well, they were still farther ahead so a decent model of problems in the space. And it is on hold or they gave up. If MNKD was at a different stage, maybe you could factor a TS epi into their SP. At this stage, it would be cash negative for years. It seems an eerily similar argument to Afrezza, and we know the effects that black box has had. Where is the link to AMPH financial report? I glanced at it and see declining profits and access to ~$30m. Point is- any joint efforts with MNKD will probably not involve upfront payment. I am hoping I missed something other then they could dilute their own stock. Will TS epi help MNKD out of its current situ? I vote no. When flush with cash, sure why not... Part of the spiral MNKD is in also deals with how other companies will work with you. The deals MNKD needs to survive will not come cheap. Your speculative argument has a few holes in it, although I can see why some may think this way...
1. The recent shelf registration for $550 Million suggests that MannKind is far from on its last legs. NOTE: I will not speculate on any deals coming to the rescue nor provisions in Alfred Mann's will, but neither will I rule them out.
2. The timeline for development of Epinephrine(TS) is not old. It's development is current, ongoing and posted at the MannKind corporate website.
3. I also see no logical link to Amphistar. Simply because this pharmaceutical company manufactures drugs in powder form does not imply that they have a license to duplicate Technosphere, which is an entirely different technology than much of what Amphistar designs. Granted, their scientists are brilliant, but no patent infringement will occur without a licensing deal to manufacture a Technosphere drug. MannKind has licensed production rights to RLS but a deal with Amphistar is a bit of a reach for me.
4. The timeline for Epinephrine(TS) reaching the market is 2018 at the earliest, so sales revenue is far down the road and will not help MannKind in the short term. However, the FDA trials will cost only a small amount of $ compared to other future TS-drugs trials, so this is one drug that may result in an early partnership, which would come with an upfront payment now and royalties later. Also, BPs must take the cost of making a deal today for an asking price from MannKind that is higher than expected and then weigh the asking price against what they'll need to pay if MannKind is successful in marketing & sales of Afrezza, which will also validate the feasibility of Epinephrine(TS).
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I share the opinion of a few others that pulmonary drug delivery via Technosphere is a potentially disruptive technology that can change medicine in many ways. There are likely some very big players that do not want MannKind to succeed and may even be working to suppress market acceptance of Afrezza. However, other perhaps not-so-big players may see TS as a potential gold mine - you snooze, you lose - and may be very interested in what Matt & Mike reveal about marketing Afrezza, a few will be more than happy to step over a rotting Sanofi franchise to make a deal and get a piece of the future.
Epinephrine(TS) would be a low-cost venture for a pharma/distributor willing to take a chance on collaborating with MannKind. The drug won't cost that much to develop since both the generic API and TS delivery system are already FDA-approved.
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Post by lakon on Apr 21, 2016 14:24:58 GMT -5
The link supports being proactive. Nothing at the link says to dose yourself 10 times more than necessary. Evidence given at the link also suggests overdosing of the sort suggested in the earlier post would be dangerous for many. In any case, If I carried only one device I would still go for a pen over an inhaler for the reasons given earlier. I think that you misinterpreted the 10x. Nobody meant at once. The idea is that many take the wait and see approach AND GET LUCKY, not needing the shot. Unfortunately, when you are unlucky, you might die. Therefore, Dr. Mark Greenwald (read his comments) suggested that patients err on the side of caution by taking the shot early. Where many disagree with the dear doctor is about whether or not their is a downside. With an inhaled version, there would truly be no downside to dosing immediately. Countless lives could be saved. You would still want to have the auto injector, but you would use the inhaler more often, like someone said, maybe 10x more over your life. 10x is just a WAG -- maybe less, maybe more... The inhaler is on your key chain. The auto injector is in your backpack. In any event, the real juice is sales to hospitals, public institutions, etc. That's where the volume is. Accidents do happen: www.reuters.com/article/us-accidental-epipen-idUSTRE53C3ZF20090413
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Post by hankscorpio7 on Apr 21, 2016 15:03:11 GMT -5
Beating a dead horse? You make a thread on TS epi and lots of links- but nothing about why it isn't a great plan for a company on its last legs?Old info. Like last year old? Ok. Well, they were still farther ahead so a decent model of problems in the space. And it is on hold or they gave up. If MNKD was at a different stage, maybe you could factor a TS epi into their SP. At this stage, it would be cash negative for years. It seems an eerily similar argument to Afrezza, and we know the effects that black box has had. Where is the link to AMPH financial report? I glanced at it and see declining profits and access to ~$30m. Point is- any joint efforts with MNKD will probably not involve upfront payment. I am hoping I missed something other then they could dilute their own stock. Will TS epi help MNKD out of its current situ? I vote no. When flush with cash, sure why not... Part of the spiral MNKD is in Your speculative argument has a few holes in it, although I can see why some may think this way...
1. The recent shelf registration for $550 Million suggests that MannKind is far from on its last legs. NOTE: I will not speculate on any deals coming to the rescue nor provisions in Alfred Mann's will, but neither will I rule them out.
2. The timeline for development of Epinephrine(TS) is not old. It's development is current, ongoing and posted at the MannKind corporate website.
3. I also see no logical link to Amphistar. Simply because this pharmaceutical company manufactures drugs in powder form does not imply that they have a license to duplicate Technosphere, which is an entirely different technology than much of what Amphistar designs. Granted, their scientists are brilliant, but no patent infringement will occur without a licensing deal to manufacture a Technosphere drug. MannKind has licensed production rights to RLS but a deal with Amphistar is a bit of a reach for me.
4. The timeline for Epinephrine(TS) reaching the market is 2018 at the earliest, so sales revenue is far down the road and will not help MannKind in the short term. However, the FDA trials will cost only a small amount of $ compared to other future TS-drugs trials, so this is one drug that may result in an early partnership, which would come with an upfront payment now and royalties later. Also, BPs must take the cost of making a deal today for an asking price from MannKind that is higher than expected and then weigh the asking price against what they'll need to pay if MannKind is successful in marketing & sales of Afrezza, which will also validate the feasibility of Epinephrine(TS).
---
I share the opinion of a few others that pulmonary drug delivery via Technosphere is a potentially disruptive technology that can change medicine in many ways. There are likely some very big players that do not want MannKind to succeed and may even be working to suppress market acceptance of Afrezza. However, other perhaps not-so-big players may see TS as a potential gold mine - you snooze, you lose - and may be very interested in what Matt & Mike reveal about marketing Afrezza, a few will be more than happy to step over a rotting Sanofi franchise to make a deal and get a piece of the future.
Epinephrine(TS) would be a low-cost venture for a pharma/distributor willing to take a chance on collaborating with MannKind. The drug won't cost that much to develop since both the generic API and TS delivery system are already FDA-approved.
Interesting use of speculative- implies that yours is not.. 1. Argument is more about shareholders. Sure, your shares may go on for ten years- but at what percent equity? As interesting as TS epi is, Will it result in MNKD do a small or significant dilution? I ,for one, would rather sell now and buyback in at the price someone else will be getting 100-300m shares. Granted- if only 100m, I mighthold. 2. Old related to my info lakon referred to in other post. 3. AMPH only brought up as an interested partner. How likely will it be they announce a deal with MNKD next week with upfront cash? 4.Agreed. If there are several suitors, fun begins. But Hakan was begging for these suitors all year.
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Post by hankscorpio7 on Apr 21, 2016 16:27:38 GMT -5
Beating a dead horse? You make a thread on TS epi and lots of links- but nothing about why it isn't a great planI think it's a great plan. I said so. If you don't, I don't care. Make a reasonable argument, and then, I'd pay attention. I gave you credit for bringing up Civitas. If you can show that I am wrong about them, go for it! I'm just tired of people talking smack and poking holes with fragile arguments. Do your own work, and maybe you will impress me. Don't complain about lots of links [FYI] on one hand and then complain about not being spoon fed a financial report. I said to go listen to the AMPH conference calls. There is good stuff in there. A lot can change in a year. MNKD demonstrates that routinely. So does AMPH. Again, it's easy to say someone is farther ahead. BS. You don't know because it's not a straight line and they are not following the same path. Where is it? Farther ahead. Okay. You also have no idea where MNKD really is relative to where Civitas/Acorda was within the search space. I am still glad that you brought it up. We just differ in how we assess the situation. That's fine. Nope. We do NOT know the effects of the black box to any significant amount. After the second launch, a proper launch, we can revisit the hypothesis. The warnings are not that onerous to someone knowledgeable, like a doctor should be. You missed a lot wrt AMPH, but that's okay. Keep trying. I never said that they would provide cash or anything. They could provide insulin. That would be an innovative arrangement... Epi is about the future in a year or so, not the current cash situation. That is about to be solved by something else. The market is forward looking. Of course, it cannot see beyond the current cash report until IT DOES! Spiral. "I dedicate this thread to discuss Epinephrine Technosphere. A few threads have come before, but none really got my heart pounding..." - lakon Interesting method of discussion. I bring up a few points missing from your original "what have we got so far" and "I don't care" is your response? Your posts gave an unbiased impression that this is a viable life line the market is unaware of- how you have belittled my unoriginal regurgitations suggests what? The only thing I'm going on for where MNKD is in their Epi research is the timeline provided by one of the links in this thread ,which was from MNKD themselves. Did I give you the impression I didn't look at AMPH's LAST financial report? Did that feel empowering, "spoon fed"? I merely pointed out ,with the abundance of links you provided, you didn't provide that one which would prove AMPH are indeed well positioned to be looking to acquire- as you stated- or are an interested partner with upfront cash. Interesting absence was my point. If they have little cash, one thing to rule out being a thing that helps us near term. I invited others to look at the report and counter my calculations- I thought since you know everything about AMPH, you could easily point out the errors in my math. I will endeavor to "keep trying". You want me to provide you a detailed, scientific explanation of how TS epi will not work? Which you would be able to discuss rationally, as you have illustrated by how you have discussed simple points? I gave you an argument of why it is not cost effective, at this time, for MNKD to offer this as feasible. If this is a large part of Afrezza 2.0- the market will punish. If the market is crazy about it- I will go underweight and look for better entry.
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Post by frumenti on Apr 21, 2016 17:06:09 GMT -5
I am a real world user of Epipens. For a number of years I went into anaphylactic shock for no reason doctors were ever able to figure out. I was in emergency rooms about every two months. I was using a prefilled pen that had two doses and was in a red plastic box that would fit in a pocket. That product was discontinued and I have had to start using Epipen which has one dose but the prescription comes with two pens. This is way too big to carry in a pocket and a single dose is usually not enough in my case. My attacks start with burning in my stomach and then intense itching of the palm side of my hands and a drop in blood pressure and sometimes swelling of some part of my body I use Afrezza for diabetes and it is very convenient and have never had an anaphylactic attack where I could not use an inhaler if one were available.I think almost everyone has some warning when having an allergic attack: hives, swelling, etc. I personally do not know of anyone who would not be able to inhale when having an attack. If they cannot inhale it is probably too late any way. A doctor finally gave me a couple of prescriptions that I take and my attacks are much fewer. My Allergist tested me for every thing possible and found nothing. He finally told me 40% of his patients tested never find out the reason for their allergic attacks. I think my cause was stress but doctors hear that so often they do not like to accept that.
Technosphere is the answer. My co pay for Epipens is $90 which is way too expensive and is a result of no competition.
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Post by peppy on Apr 21, 2016 17:17:47 GMT -5
I am a real world user of Epipens. For a number of years I went into anaphylactic shock for no reason doctors were ever able to figure out. I was in emergency rooms about every two months. I was using a prefilled pen that had two doses and was in a red plastic box that would fit in a pocket. That product was discontinued and I have had to start using Epipen which has one dose but the prescription comes with two pens. This is way too big to carry in a pocket and a single dose is usually not enough in my case. My attacks start with burning in my stomach and then intense itching of the palm side of my hands and a drop in blood pressure and sometimes swelling of some part of my body I use Afrezza for diabetes and it is very convenient and have never had an anaphylactic attack where I could not use an inhaler if one were available.I think almost everyone has some warning when having an allergic attack: hives, swelling, etc. I personally do not know of anyone who would not be able to inhale when having an attack. If they cannot inhale it is probably too late any way. A doctor finally gave me a couple of prescriptions that I take and my attacks are much fewer. My Allergist tested me for every thing possible and found nothing. He finally told me 40% of his patients tested never find out the reason for their allergic attacks. I think my cause was stress but doctors hear that so often they do not like to accept that.
Technosphere is the answer. My co pay for Epipens is $90 which is way too expensive and is a result of no competition.
consciousness raising www.google.com/search?q=epipen&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjJwKLC4KDMAhXngYMKHfb2DX8QsAQITw&biw=1301&bih=592
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Post by end2war on Apr 21, 2016 17:20:08 GMT -5
Common side effects of epinephrine auto-injector include:
Faster, irregular (wrong) or “pounding” heartbeat.
Throbbing headache.
Paleness.
Feelings of over excitement, anxiety, or fear.
Weakness or shakiness.
Dizziness.
Nausea and vomiting.
Sweating.
These do pose some medical issues for someone that is considering whether to take epinephrine. I am not sure if the inhaled version would produce the same risk of side effects, but it is a legitimate question.
Still, my feeling that the drug given by inhaled TS technology could be a big seller is based on the idea that many people would prefer the inhaled method of administration because it is not a painful shot. But, how often they dose themselves is up to them.
I was trying to say that I think more people would use the inhaler than the shot, and the number of administered doses would rise. Perhaps 10 x is an exaggeration, but maybe not. It is hard to say right now. Some who need it, but delay or fail to use shots would take it; and some that don't need it but are concerned would take it, IMO.
I don't know how many now give themselves a shot, just to be safe, who really don't need it. How do you gather data on that? Whatever that number might be, I suspect it will go up with an inhaler.
We know diabetics get used to administering shots and they often don't have problems or reluctance. But non diabetics who do not frequently administer shots will have far more resistance, and this show is much more painful than a diabetic shot of insulin, as I understand it.
I definitely do not advocate using medicines that are not needed, but when you suspect a problem with the food, isn't it better to be safe? Maybe that depends on your personal reaction to epinephrine. I wonder what a doctor treating this condition would recommend?
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Post by peppy on Apr 21, 2016 17:23:06 GMT -5
ever lost your airway? the ensuing panic?
epinephrine on every crash cart for a reason.
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Post by cm5 on Apr 21, 2016 17:23:45 GMT -5
Average price of EpiPen for those without insurance coverage: >$600.
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Post by cm5 on Apr 22, 2016 5:20:55 GMT -5
Increasing cases of anaphylaxis among children:
"Posted: 21 Apr 2016 10:38 AM PDT
Anaphylaxis, known to be a sudden and potentially life-threatening allergic reaction, seems to be increasing among children, according to a new study. The findings reveal that the percentage of emergency department visits due to anaphylaxis doubled over a four-year period."
"Anaphylaxis, known to be a sudden and potentially life-threatening allergic reaction, seems to be increasing among children, according to a new study led by a team at the Research Institute of the McGill University Health Centre (RI-MUHC). The findings, published this week in the Journal of Allergy and Clinical Immunology (JACI), reveal that the percentage of emergency department (ED) visits due to anaphylaxis doubled over a four-year period based on data collected from the Montreal Children's Hospital of the MUHC (MCH-MUHC)."
"With the rising rates of allergies among Canadian children, we were interested in determining if anaphylaxis rates are also increasing," says the study's senior author Dr. Moshe Ben-Shoshan who is a pediatric allergist and immunologist at the MCH-MUHC and an assistant professor of Pediatrics at McGill University. "Our findings suggest a worrisome increase in anaphylaxis rate that is consistent with the world-wide reported increase."
It is estimated that almost 600,000 Canadians will experience anaphylaxis in their lifetime and that more than half of the individuals who had anaphylaxis were not equipped with life-saving epinephrine. Anaphylaxis can occur within seconds or minutes of exposure to an allergen which can include certain foods, medications, insect venom or latex, for example. The allergic response is marked by swelling, hives, lowered blood pressure, and dilated blood vessels. In severe cases, the reaction can be life-threatening."
The researchers collected data from 965 anaphylaxis cases seen at the MCH-MUHC between April 2011 and April 2015, as part of the nationwide Cross-Canada Anaphylaxis REgistry (C-CARE)--a project of the Allergy, Genes and Environment Network (AllerGen). C-CARE is led by RI-MUHC researcher Dr. Ben-Shoshan and is the first prospective study on anaphylaxis to assess the rate, triggers and management of anaphylaxis in different provinces and settings across Canada. Anaphylaxis was defined in the study as the involvement of two organ systems and/or hypotension in response to a potential allergen.
The study shows that between 2011 and 2015, the annual percentage of ED visits to the MCH-MUHC due to anaphylaxis rose from 0.20% to 0.41%, with the largest annual increase between 2013-14 and 2014-15. The team also observed that the majority (80.2%) of anaphylaxis cases were triggered by food, principally peanut and tree nut, and that children who did not receive epinephrine prior to arrival at the ED were more likely to receive multiple (two or more) doses of epinephrine at the hospital.
The under use of epinephrine auto-injectors was also highlighted in the research.
"Only slightly more than half of those who had an auto-injector used it prior to arrival in the emergency department," adds the study's lead author Dr. Elana Hochstadter, who is currently doing a fellowship in Pediatric Emergency Medicine at SickKids, and who was a pediatric resident at the Children's Hospital at London Health Sciences Centre at the time of the study. "This increased the risk of administration of multiple epinephrine doses in hospital, therefore, it is of critical importance for parents and healthcare providers to work together to ensure the appropriate and timely use of epinephrine auto-injectors in the case of anaphylactic reactions."
Elana Hochstadter MD, Ann Clarke MD MSc, Sarah De Schryver, MD, Sebastien LaVieille MD MSc, Reza Alizadehfar MD, Lawrence Joseph, PhD, Harley Eisman MD, Moshe Ben-Shoshan MD MSc. Increasing visits for anaphylaxis and the benefits of early epinephrine administration: A 4 year study at a pediatric emergency department in Montreal, Canada. Journal of Allergy and Clinical Immunology, Volume 137, Issue 6. (2016) DOI: 10.1016/j.jaci.2016.02.016
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Post by lakon on Apr 24, 2016 14:14:14 GMT -5
I think it's a great plan. I said so. If you don't, I don't care. Make a reasonable argument, and then, I'd pay attention. I gave you credit for bringing up Civitas. If you can show that I am wrong about them, go for it! I'm just tired of people talking smack and poking holes with fragile arguments. Do your own work, and maybe you will impress me. Don't complain about lots of links [FYI] on one hand and then complain about not being spoon fed a financial report. I said to go listen to the AMPH conference calls. There is good stuff in there. A lot can change in a year. MNKD demonstrates that routinely. So does AMPH. ... Epi is about the future in a year or so, not the current cash situation. That is about to be solved by something else. ... "I dedicate this thread to discuss Epinephrine Technosphere. A few threads have come before, but none really got my heart pounding..." - lakon Interesting method of discussion. I bring up a few points missing from your original "what have we got so far" and "I don't care" is your response? Your posts gave an unbiased impression that this is a viable life line the market is unaware of- how you have belittled my unoriginal regurgitations suggests what? The only thing I'm going on for where MNKD is in their Epi research is the timeline provided by one of the links in this thread ,which was from MNKD themselves. Did I give you the impression I didn't look at AMPH's LAST financial report? Did that feel empowering, "spoon fed"? I merely pointed out ,with the abundance of links you provided, you didn't provide that one which would prove AMPH are indeed well positioned to be looking to acquire- as you stated- or are an interested partner with upfront cash. Interesting absence was my point. If they have little cash, one thing to rule out being a thing that helps us near term. I invited others to look at the report and counter my calculations- I thought since you know everything about AMPH, you could easily point out the errors in my math. I will endeavor to "keep trying". You want me to provide you a detailed, scientific explanation of how TS epi will not work? Which you would be able to discuss rationally, as you have illustrated by how you have discussed simple points? I gave you an argument of why it is not cost effective, at this time, for MNKD to offer this as feasible. If this is a large part of Afrezza 2.0- the market will punish. If the market is crazy about it- I will go underweight and look for better entry. To avoid further confusion, I will attempt to clarify a few things with regard to my intent in light of possible misinterpretations. I started this thread to discuss Technosphere+Epinephrine, not the current financial situation of MNKD, AMPH, MYL, etc. There are plenty of threads discussing the current financial situation of MNKD. I have commented there as well as in this thread. My views have been expressed. I think that MNKD will get through this tough patch and be better off for it in the long run. That said, I want to discuss future applications of Technosphere, and I am starting with what is under pursuit or has been mentioned. I assume that MNKD management is best suited to decide whether or not to pursue and when to do so. I try not to second guess them when they know better about the complete picture; however, I do try to add to the discussion where I see gaps. In the case of Epinephrine, it seemed clear that little value was attributed to this effort, but that is likely due to the often discussed cash concerns and timeline. We await a resolution. In the meantime, management endeavored to provide information on a pipeline due to shareholder/analyst interest. My take is that there is a lot to discuss, and I plan to continue to do so. If you think that the company is not going to be around long enough for the pipeline to come to fruition, these threads are probably not of interest to you. If you believe as I believe, baking these developments into your long-term models is prudent planning. In context, my "I don't care" response was referring to whether or not anyone agrees or disagrees with my assessment about MNKD's plan being great with respect to Epinephrine. What I mean is simply that I am not interested whether you agree or disagree and will not judge based on that, but rather seeking a sound argument about the merits. I do not think that civil discourse begins with incendiary comments nor continues with them; however, if one chooses to start off with a blunt instrument, expect the same in kind. These are the tactics of FUD, and I will not take kindly to it whether or not that was your intent. I am not trying to be unbiased. My bias should be well known in every post. If I claimed to be unbiased (and probably am), I would not believe myself anyway in light of my LONG sentiment and signature. In fact, I do not think Epinephrine is a viable life line the market is unaware of. Most should be aware that it was never presented as a life line; however, if MNKD survives and thrives as I believe, Epi has larger potential IMO than the market seems to recognize. That's where the long-term investor can benefit. The pursuit also suggested a lot of other positives to me, and I stated them already. There is more to follow. In context, if one listens to the AMPH conference calls as I suggested, it becomes clear that not only is AMPH looking to acquire small assets, they have done so recently. Of course, I would not even consider them looking to acquire MNKD if that's what you thought. For that matter, my partner reference was a tongue in cheek reference to the possibility down the road and the fact that both AMPH and MNKD are rather coy about their relationships, partnership arrangements with others, etc. I certainly would not expect AMPH to do some kind of up front cash partnership that fixes MNKD's cash position. As far as I know, MNKD owes AMPH about $5-10 million for contractual obligations to purchase insulin last year. The more interesting question is why is AMPH being so nice about this matter. If one listens to the old conference calls about acquiring the insulin business, it was clear that AMPH positioned itself for negotiations with MNKD. Now, AMPH is playing nice. Why? Perhaps, they see getting paid more likely by being nice than not. Perhaps, Epinephrine played a role or not. I am interested in exploring this avenue of thought. I would be more than happy to read a detailed, scientific explanation of how TS epi will or will not work. For that matter, I'd love to hear more details about Acorda/Civitas.
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