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Post by Deleted on May 25, 2016 10:18:29 GMT -5
One hand washes the other. The investors that just bought the shares are offloading them and the shorts are picking them up. The investors want them off their books but not so fast that the price drops materially, and the shorts are buying but not so fast that they push the price up. Aged- are you saying the investors that recently bought the shares for $1.03 are selling them to the shorts for less than the $1.03 they paid for them? I don't think the fees the investors were paid for the brokerage would offset the losses from the sales of the shares. I guess I'm missing something here. In other words, how are the recent investors from the Rodman and Renshaw deal making money now by unloading for less than $1.03 that they paid? I am not sure on the whole subject but the recent investors also got warrants for 50 million shares along with those shares and some one valued those warrants in other thread |
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Post by therealisaching on May 25, 2016 10:21:02 GMT -5
One hand washes the other. The investors that just bought the shares are offloading them and the shorts are picking them up. The investors want them off their books but not so fast that the price drops materially, and the shorts are buying but not so fast that they push the price up. Aged- are you saying the investors that recently bought the shares for $1.03 are selling them to the shorts for less than the $1.03 they paid for them? I don't think the fees the investors were paid for the brokerage would offset the losses from the sales of the shares. I guess I'm missing something here. In other words, how are the recent investors from the Rodman and Renshaw deal making money now by unloading for less than $1.03 that they paid? Share's werent purchased at $1.03
"Each share of common stock is being sold together with a warrant to purchase 0.75 of a share of common stock (A Warrants) and a
warrant to purchase 0.25 of a share of common stock (B Warrants) for a combined purchase price of $1.03"
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Post by humann on May 25, 2016 10:30:50 GMT -5
Does anyone suspect more shorts to follow with this number out? I don't have any sort of feel for how many of these shares represent Jo-Shmo who is just jumping on an obvious short call.
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Post by LosingMyBullishness on May 25, 2016 11:31:14 GMT -5
Its very interesting that there are no short shares available to me through Fidelity. Can others check with their broker to see if shares are available? I really want to know if there is cherry picking for these shares. Reverselo, I recall, IB had 400k at 6x % yesterday. Sadly mobile IB does not give such information. |
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Post by Deleted on May 25, 2016 11:33:28 GMT -5
Its very interesting that there are no short shares available to me through Fidelity. Can others check with their broker to see if shares are available? I really want to know if there is cherry picking for these shares. Reverselo, I recall, IB had 400k at 6x % yesterday. Sadly mobile IB does not give such information. Thanks for this info! |
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Post by gamblerjag on May 25, 2016 12:33:18 GMT -5
lets not forget those 25 - 30 cent days in early April... that will happen again imo before June meeting.
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Post by brotherm1 on May 25, 2016 13:00:14 GMT -5
Aged- are you saying the investors that recently bought the shares for $1.03 are selling them to the shorts for less than the $1.03 they paid for them? I don't think the fees the investors were paid for the brokerage would offset the losses from the sales of the shares. I guess I'm missing something here. In other words, how are the recent investors from the Rodman and Renshaw deal making money now by unloading for less than $1.03 that they paid? Share's werent purchased at $1.03
"Each share of common stock is being sold together with a warrant to purchase 0.75 of a share of common stock (A Warrants) and a
warrant to purchase 0.25 of a share of common stock (B Warrants) for a combined purchase price of $1.03"
Thank you therealisaching. This is over my head though and thus I can't wrap my head around it. Would you or anyone be able to show an example of what they bought at what price to be able to sell at this point and make money? |
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Post by therealisaching on May 25, 2016 13:56:56 GMT -5
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Post by brotherm1 on May 25, 2016 15:58:55 GMT -5
Thanks therealisiching. I can understand Matt's example of how the new investors could have shorted to quickly make a profit. agedhippie's "One hand washes the other. The investors that just bought the shares are offloading them and the shorts are picking them up. The investors want them off their books but not so fast that the price drops materially, and the shorts are buying but not so fast that they push the price up," still has my brain in pain. I was contemplating buying another 25k shares today or tomorrow but I am realizing I don't know what I am doing. I need to find a book for dummies on this subject  |
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Post by chuck on May 25, 2016 19:01:27 GMT -5
A new investor could simply buy 1 share and .75 warrant A and .25 warrant B for $1.03. Now they can turn around and sell the 1 share for $1.03 to retail investors and recover their $1.03. Now they have no capital at risk and are left with the warrants. If the stock price stays below the warrant strike price or goes to zero, who cares as they have lost nothing. If it goes above the strike price they can exercise the warrant at the strike price and immediately sell the stock for a profit. And that is how the game is played. No losses. Only potential profits. Now that's a great investment.
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Post by agedhippie on May 25, 2016 20:07:48 GMT -5
Thanks therealisiching. I can understand Matt's example of how the new investors could have shorted to quickly make a profit. agedhippie's "One hand washes the other. The investors that just bought the shares are offloading them and the shorts are picking them up. The investors want them off their books but not so fast that the price drops materially, and the shorts are buying but not so fast that they push the price up," still has my brain in pain. I was contemplating buying another 25k shares today or tomorrow but I am realizing I don't know what I am doing. I need to find a book for dummies on this subject If you are buying as an investment then the timeframe mean it doesn't matter. If you are buying it as a trade then you are swimming with sharks - you might do well for a while but sooner or later you will lose a leg! |
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Post by brotherm1 on May 25, 2016 21:10:55 GMT -5
A new investor could simply buy 1 share and .75 warrant A and .25 warrant B for $1.03. Now they can turn around and sell the 1 share for $1.03 to retail investors and recover their $1.03. Now they have no capital at risk and are left with the warrants. If the stock price stays below the warrant strike price or goes to zero, who cares as they have lost nothing. If it goes above the strike price they can exercise the warrant at the strike price and immediately sell the stock for a profit. And that is how the game is played. No losses. Only potential profits. Now that's a great investment. Wow, a light finally went off in my brain. Thank you much chuck, AH, Matt and iching. So the roughly 50 million shares via rodman and renshaw could somewhat inhibit the share price rise from here if they are being sold, especially if shorts are keeping it down with algos to cover with them. Hopefully of course buying volume will step up. What was happening with the tight spreads lately in the low 90's until these past couple of days I guess is still an enigma. |
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Post by mbseeking on May 26, 2016 10:31:53 GMT -5
And yet the exit of the shorts seems so orderly. They came, they went.. the price did what they wanted. On the way in, and on the way out. It's like a ghost is leaving our ship. Another 20, 30 Million shorts gone, will we become a normal stock? No science, no logic, but something is different now.
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Post by brotherm1 on May 26, 2016 11:29:03 GMT -5
Certainly I've not seen any hit pieces from the shorts recently, albeit I don't look at the Yahoo boards or read Seeking Alpha so I don't know for a fact if there have not been any put out recently. For a while they seemed to be coming out on a daily basis.
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Post by matt on May 26, 2016 11:32:32 GMT -5
I think the key here is to realize that the types of people you see in a typical Rodman & Renshaw deal are not what you would consider true investors. They do zero due diligence because they don't really care if MNKD is going to trade up, down, or sideways because they will be cash neutral within a day or two with essentially no risk. This week it could be a biotech opportunity, next week an energy deal, and the week after a semiconductor company. The investors simply don't care at all about the company; it is all about the chance to make a few percent on the discount and/or on the warrants.
Making small returns might not sound exciting, but if you could make a guaranteed 2% in exchange for tying up your money for a week, what does that get you on an annualized basis? Once somebody is known as a reliable "go to" investor on this type of deal, Rodman and the other banks that play in this space will call again and again. There may not be a placement every week, but over the course of a year a reliable investor might get a piece of 20-25 deals. Those little 2% profit bites add up to a nice income.
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