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Post by matt on May 13, 2017 14:25:05 GMT -5
I'm in the logistics business. If the shipping quote was accurate you would not have seen it on a public web site. There are quoting tools that are used 24-7 by companies, logistic companies, freight forwarders that have no public access. The posting was a game played by some shill who was trying to manipulate the market. Even amateur shippers working for a company would not have posted that information. I don't doubt that a shipment is being planned but not on a freight forwarding brokerage web site. Drug transportation is specialized and the MannKind department handling the exporting of the Afrezza whether internal or external distribution would not have published it on that site. I call BS. BS. What he said. I used to supervise shipment of 20 tons of manufactured pharmaceuticals a week, and there were very specific requirements as to temperature control, transit time, logging of temperature and humidity in-transit, and so on. The storage conditions specified for the drug by the FDA have to be maintained the entire trip, and an air container or shipping can sitting in the hot sun on the airport tarmac or wharf go out of spec very rapidly. Containers without special handling can sit on the wharf for days or weeks while paperwork gets straightened out so nearly all high value pharma shipments move by air and even that has to be closely coordinated to insure that 100% of the total shipment arrives on a single aircraft or else the regulatory agencies will make you retest each batch/flight combination. That costs time, dollars, and warehouse space because quarantined product has to be stored physically separated from released product. As it is, most countries require retesting of every batch upon receipt even if the drug was tested in the US before shipping. However, to answer the original poster's question a sale is generally considered made when title to the goods and risk of loss has passed. If the purchaser of the goods is willing to accept the goods at the factory door, the sale is made the second the truck pulls away from the loading dock. In other cases it is when the goods go on the aircraft, when the aircraft lands, or when the goods are delivered to the purchasers place of business. It all depends on the terms agreed between the parties. In the medical industry title normally passes when the goods are delivered to the hospital, pharmacy, or other place designated by the purchaser. Generally, accounting follows the passage of title rule, however, if there are questions about the credit status of the purchaser, the sale may be delayed until the invoice is paid. When dealing with large, well-known wholesalers transfer of the goods is enough, but if the goods are shipped to an unknown small retail pharmacy, the auditors may defer the sale until they see some case. In the case of companies with more selling experience than Mannkind, credit defaults tend to fall into a pattern over time so a fixed amount is reserved from total sales to cover anticipated bad credit loss, say 1% a year. In the case of a foreign company, the sale will almost certainly be reserved until paid unless the contract is guaranteed by a letter of credit (LOC) from a well-known US bank. With an LOC in place, if the purchaser defaults then the bank will pay and either that bank or their foreign correspondent bank have to chase the other party for payment. If a strong US bank, like Citibank or Chase, has issued the LOC credit risk is essentially eliminated and the auditors will allow the transactions to be booked. It all depends on exactly what the paperwork says.
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Post by cyn on May 13, 2017 14:49:23 GMT -5
There are a load of things that I think are wrong with this. Not least is that if Mannkind are going to ship drugs they would use a freight forwarder because of logistics. You can ship goods yourself, but you don't have the contacts to get the best shipping price, you don't have the relationship with the people at either port to make sure there are no delays, and you just don't have the shipping experience. Secondly, assuming for a moment you have taken leave of your senses and decided to handle the logistics yourself then why are you using some odd site to find a shipper? If there is going to be a problem then it will happen on that first shipment so you would use a more expensive but reliable shipper who you want approach directly. I shipped perishable goods through JFK for a couple of years, there is no way I would ever attempt it alone. The chances of a bureaucratic delay is just unacceptably high for a perishable load. I totally agree with agedhippy... Moreover, I simply don't see MNKD relying upon container freight shipping for international shipments, especially for fulfilling an initial supply inventory for an international partner or health ministry. A review of container shipment schedules to/from UAE from NYC/Newark terminals averages approx. 50 to 60 days, and imo, is not worth the risk of exposing the cargo to handling damage or delay. Believe me, if you've ever witnessed how containers are tossed about at a shipping terminal prior to and following loading, no one in their right mind would ever consider shipping temperature sensitive, refrigerated pharmaceuticals via container ship. If they do, they should be fired! Imo, the UAE SeaRates.com shipment notice was merely a quote request and a hoax. Billionaire Alfred Mann would never allow shipment of Affrezza to go by container. JMHO
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Post by promann on May 13, 2017 15:36:30 GMT -5
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Post by sportsrancho on May 13, 2017 15:37:20 GMT -5
Am I missing something? Did someone with actual knowledge and facts state for sure that 10.5 tons of AFREZZA is either at, in transit, be loaded and bound for, thought of posting on a message board that it's heading to UAE or some other small Middle East nation? When will it show up as account due? When does it count as a sale? Facts only! Please get your heads out of the clouds and look for what you know, not what you hope. My comments have nothing to do with shipment. I do realize my credibility (on PB) with recent posts suggesting a partnership or co-promotion deal that will be announced before ASM is on the line. I like Matt will have no credibility if I'm wrong. Lets hope I'm right and Good luck to all mnkd longs! I had a dream last night and it didn't have anything to do with shipments either:-))). GL! Image from www.eluniverso.com/sites/default/files/styles/nota_ampliada_normal_foto/public/fotos/2014/09/pr07gty100914aphoto01.jpg.
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Post by madog365 on May 13, 2017 15:56:29 GMT -5
Shipping pharma product by container is not unheard of if container is refrigerated. In this case the person who requested the quote also noted that the container should be 2 degrees celcius which is the recommended temperature (http://pharmaceuticalcommerce.com/special-report/optimization-of-2-8-degrees-celsius-controlled-temperature-small-parcels/) . I guess you would say they did some elaborate research to try to trick all the message board people following mnkd but In my mind the timing is still suspect and i believe the more feasible explanation was simply someone who did not realize the quote would be publicly visible. When they did, they took it down.
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Post by kc on May 13, 2017 15:59:51 GMT -5
I am glad that the image you dreamed was not this one.
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Post by akemp3000 on May 13, 2017 16:17:17 GMT -5
Wow. What an image! After following MNKD for years, my first thought was...just another typical day in the life of MNKD. I hope the refrigerated containers for Afrezza are well sealed and can float
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Post by promann on May 13, 2017 16:18:33 GMT -5
Shipping pharma product by container is not unheard of if container is refrigerated. In this case the person who requested the quote also noted that the container should be 2 degrees celcius which is the recommended temperature (http://pharmaceuticalcommerce.com/special-report/optimization-of-2-8-degrees-celsius-controlled-temperature-small-parcels/) . I guess you would say they did some elaborate research to try to trick all the message board people following mnkd but In my mind the timing is still suspect and i believe the more feasible explanation was simply someone who did not realize the quote would be publicly visible. When they did, they took it down. Exactly, it was probably some person at MNKD that was directed to get shipping quotes and find the most efficient way to ship. This could have been one of many such estimations of shipping. Right and then oops a piece of bread was left behind for the longs to follow..
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Post by promann on May 13, 2017 16:22:48 GMT -5
I am glad that the image you dreamed was not this one. I'm sure a shipment as large as Afrezza would be insured. Just as if you are shipping anything through the mail
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Post by peppy on May 13, 2017 16:25:45 GMT -5
I don't think those were refrigerated. I do not see an extension cord.
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Post by kc on May 13, 2017 16:32:07 GMT -5
I don't think those were refrigerated. I do not see an extension cord. I guess you could say they are cordless containers. But seriously refrigerated shipping containers typically run on diesel and have enough fuel to power them for whatever length the journey might be.
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Post by BlueCat on May 13, 2017 16:54:08 GMT -5
I am glad that the image you dreamed was not this one. I'm sure a shipment as large as Afrezza would be insured. Just as if you are shipping anything through the mail Unless of course, the shipment is insured based on market price in the US .....;p
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Post by peppy on May 13, 2017 17:01:05 GMT -5
I'm sure a shipment as large as Afrezza would be insured. Just as if you are shipping anything through the mail Unless of course, the shipment is insured based on market price in the US .....;p would that end up being a twofer?
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Post by cyn on May 13, 2017 17:06:02 GMT -5
Promann, Enjoyed reading the article... all good stuff. Thanks. However, I still respectfully disagree that MNKD would use seagoing transport, especially for initial shipments until inventories are well established. I have no doubt that the Searates.com post was a hoax... for the many reasons cited by KC and Agedhippie in earlier posts. Imo, refrigerated Air Freight would be the most prudent and responsible method of shipment for Afrezza, and I simply can't believe that MNKD would consider anything less. Too much is at stake. However, this is not to say that sea transport options could not be consideredin the future.
MNKD management knows how they've blundered (i.e. Sanofi partnership terms, among others)... and they certainly know they're tittering on the edge of bankruptcy and must book revenues ASAP to open doors to viable refinancing options. I don't see them risking everything to save a few bucks on sea transport and expose themselves to revenue delays resulting from some Terminal red-tape, Longshoreman strike, cargo-container inspection snag, ship failure, hurricane or Somalia/Yemen maritime piracy intervention, etc.... Like I said earlier, Alfred Mann would not be taking those kind of risks to ship his legacy Afrezza, and I simply can't believe MNKD management would not do the same. JMHO
Somalia/Yemen maritime piracy response intervention www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-mattis-africa-idUSKBN17P0C7
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Post by promann on May 13, 2017 17:12:39 GMT -5
Promann, Enjoyed reading the article... all good stuff. Thanks. However, I still respectfully disagree that MNKD would use seagoing transport, especially for initial shipments until inventories are well established. I have no doubt that the Searates.com post was a hoax... for the many reasons cited by KC and Agedhippie in earlier posts. Imo, refrigerated Air Freight would be the most prudent and responsible method of shipment for Afrezza, and I simply can't believe that MNKD would consider anything less. Too much is at stake. However, this is not to say that sea transport options could not be consideredin the future.
MNKD management knows how they've blundered (i.e. Sanofi partnership terms, among others)... and they certainly know they're tittering on the edge of bankruptcy and must book revenues ASAP to open doors to viable refinancing options. I don't see them risking everything to save a few bucks on sea transport and expose themselves to revenue delays resulting from some Terminal red-tape, Longshoreman strike, cargo-container inspection snag, ship failure, hurricane or Somalia/Yemen maritime piracy intervention, etc.... Like I said earlier, Alfred Mann would not be taking those kind of risks to ship his legacy Afrezza, and I simply can't believe MNKD management would not do the same. JMHO
Somalia/Yemen maritime piracy response intervention www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-mattis-africa-idUSKBN17P0C7
Thanks but I still believe it was the real thing.. And as far as shipping and risk involved. One word. INSURANCE
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