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Post by InvesterSam on Aug 22, 2017 9:51:00 GMT -5
I would like to get advice from this board members on my wife's prediabetes care.
Couple years ago, my wife and I tried to learn the relationship between our blood glucose (BG) levels and daily foods we were taking. For the following few weeks, we poked our fingers, measured BG level before and after each meal, in addition to set times throughout the day (before/after sleep, before/after exercise, middle of day, etc.). We learned how our bodies were doing regarding BG level with our foods and activities. We also learned few specific surprises; 1) sushi and banana caused to shoot up BG to near 200; 2) my wife's BG did not dropped for very long time (more than an hour). Since then, my wife has been paying more attention to our diets and her exercise. She told me that she could sense her BG level went up sometimes. Then, she ran down to a treadmill for about an hour exercise. Now, she usually has a very light dinner or skip it sometimes. I usually have a big dinner and it is not as much fun with an eating companion.
Few days ago, I suggested inhaled insulin (Afrezza) to her for her prediabetic care and gave her a copy of the VDEX white paper. Immediately, she objected using inhaled insulin for two reasons; 1) inhaled medication is hard to control dose; 2) if we start to take insulin from outside, our body will stop producing insulin and all beta cells will die soon, resulting in 100% drug dependency in near future. She promised me to read VDEX white paper. She used to be a registered nurse, turned to a biostatistician, now retired, only trusting correctly-done-peer-reviewed-publications. Are there peer reviewed papers to answer her two questions/objections? I would love to have easy answers for me to convince her, if possible.
Thanks in advance!
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Post by peppy on Aug 22, 2017 9:57:13 GMT -5
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Post by peppy on Aug 22, 2017 11:03:48 GMT -5
investor sam, I kind of did the same regarding glucose monitoring.
for the fun of it, since I had @ 60 glucose sticks to stick in a glucose monitor I did the same. A morning glucose. A glucose prior and after meals, observing what I had been eating.
One night I had some butterscotch schnapps. That sent me glucose to 200.
It was interesting to see how the food I ate affected glucose levels.
Too bad we are all making our decisions in this day and age of high sucrose content in our foods while blind to blood glucose levels.
Listening to the people at hypocrites institute if we want to eat just greens control and be reestablished.
hippocratesinst.org/blog
they are pretty much just raw.
Personally, I can not imagine a cold beet soup with cabbage. They show how to sprout beans. they are into spouts.
Chlorophyll, they want people to get chlorophyll, the energy from the sun.
I am trying to stay close to GBOMBS. Joel Fuhrman.
Greens, Beans, onions, mushrooms, berries and seeds.
www.drfuhrman.com/learn/the-nutritarian-diet
Hypocrites institute, does even want people to eat the berries, saying the glucose load is too high.
Interesting gig how our bodies react to food.
I have been eating a lot of chili.
added: because I am crazy, see the nitrogen in the chlorophyll depiction, Nitrogen = protein. The magnesium, our body likes magnesium, it is the ion involved in the relaxation of the muscle in the contract, relax. additionally hypocrites wants our cells well oxygenated for the Krebs cycle. See the oxygen. interesting depiction. 
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Post by traderdennis on Aug 22, 2017 11:13:20 GMT -5
I would like to get advice from this board members on my wife's prediabetes care. Couple years ago, my wife and I tried to learn the relationship between our blood glucose (BG) levels and daily foods we were taking. For the following few weeks, we poked our fingers, measured BG level before and after each meal, in addition to set times throughout the day (before/after sleep, before/after exercise, middle of day, etc.). We learned how our bodies were doing regarding BG level with our foods and activities. We also learned few specific surprises; 1) sushi and banana caused to shoot up BG to near 200; 2) my wife's BG did not dropped for very long time (more than an hour). Since then, my wife has been paying more attention to our diets and her exercise. She told me that she could sense her BG level went up sometimes. Then, she ran down to a treadmill for about an hour exercise. Now, she usually has a very light dinner or skip it sometimes. I usually have a big dinner and it is not as much fun with an eating companion. Few days ago, I suggested inhaled insulin (Afrezza) to her for her prediabetic care and gave her a copy of the VDEX white paper. Immediately, she objected using inhaled insulin for two reasons; 1) inhaled medication is hard to control dose; 2) if we start to take insulin from outside, our body will stop producing insulin and all beta cells will die soon, resulting in 100% drug dependency in near future. She promised me to read VDEX white paper. She used to be a registered nurse, turned to a biostatistician, now retired, only trusting correctly-done-peer-reviewed-publications. Are there peer reviewed papers to answer her two questions/objections? I would love to have easy answers for me to convince her, if possible. Thanks in advance! Hi Sam, Fantastic that you two are exploring the relationship between food and blood glucose! BG readings are a bit more complex than plugging in a type and quantity of food and seeing how much your glucose will rise. Over the years, I have found that there are more dependent variables than just the amount and type of carbs. The following can effect your readings. This is more geared for T2's versus T1's because T2's are insulin resistant. 1. Amount of fat in your meal, as more fat will slow the absorption of sugar into the blood stream.
2. The amount of exercise over the last 48 hours. The more exercise, the less likely insulin is resistant.
3. The amount of quality sleep, especially if you have had two or more nights of less than 7.5 hours of sleep. The body just does not work as well of sythesizing the glucose into the cells. The longer periods of time without quality sleep the more insulin resistant T2's become.
4. Glycemic index, the higher the GI, the quicker carbs convert to sugar in the blood stream and quicker the peaks become.
These are the big four that come off the top of my head.
As for using insulin, my understanding is that you are actually conserving the pancreas' beta cells as the pancreas does not need to produce as much insulin on its own. It is when the PWD is prescribed with a sulphanarea (Glipizide for example) class of drugs that stimulates the production of insulin in the pancreas that beta cell burnout occurs. |
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Post by brotherm1 on Aug 22, 2017 11:27:54 GMT -5
investor sam, I kind of did the same regarding glucose monitoring.
for the fun of it, since I had @ 60 glucose sticks to stick in a glucose monitor I did the same. A morning glucose. A glucose prior and after meals, observing what I had been eating.
One night I had some butterscotch schnapps. That sent me glucose to 200.
It was interesting to see how the food I ate affected glucose levels.
Too bad we are all making our decisions in this day and age of high sucrose content in our foods while blind to blood glucose levels.
Listening to the people at hypocrites institute if we want to eat just greens control and be reestablished.
hippocratesinst.org/blog
they are pretty much just raw.
Personally, I can not imagine a cold beet soup with cabbage. They show how to sprout beans. they are into spouts.
Chlorophyll, they want people to get chlorophyll, the energy from the sun.
I am trying to stay close to GBOMBS. Joel Fuhrman.
Greens, Beans, onions, mushrooms, berries and seeds.
www.drfuhrman.com/learn/the-nutritarian-diet
Hypocrites institute, does even want people to eat the berries, saying the glucose load is too high.
Interesting gig how our bodies react to food.
I have been eating a lot of chili.
added: because I am crazy, see the nitrogen in the chlorophyll depiction, Nitrogen = protein. The magnesium, our body likes magnesium, it is the ion involved in the relaxation of the muscle in the contract, relax. additionally hypocrites wants our cells well oxygenated for the Krebs cycle. See the oxygen. interesting depiction.
"Too bad we are all making our decisions in this day and age of high sucrose content in our foods while blind to blood glucose levels." You lost me on that one Ms Peopy. Are you trying to say we are or are not making decisions based upon sucrose levels? I've not been concerned about sucrose levels. Should I be? |
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Post by dreamboatcruise on Aug 22, 2017 11:29:55 GMT -5
Sounds like she is wanting to address it with diet and exercise, which would be preferable to exogenous insulin (even if helping my investment), but taking meal time insulin is simply taking the post meal stress off the pancreas due to the increased demand related to T2 loss of insulin sensitivity. The pancreas is still doing work 24/7.
If she can control the post meal spike with a treadmill... good for her. If not always successful, she could probably predict what sort of meals could use a little insulin boost. That would be the best of both worlds... limited stress on pancreas for the "big carb eating" when it happens and perhaps reducing the underlying insulin resistance by throwing in extra exercise to handle most eating. I think that would be my approach if I ever seem to be transitioning into "prediabetes" as I get older.
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Post by mnholdem on Aug 22, 2017 11:40:17 GMT -5
I would like to get advice from this board members on my wife's prediabetes care. Couple years ago, my wife and I tried to learn the relationship between our blood glucose (BG) levels and daily foods we were taking. For the following few weeks, we poked our fingers, measured BG level before and after each meal, in addition to set times throughout the day (before/after sleep, before/after exercise, middle of day, etc.). We learned how our bodies were doing regarding BG level with our foods and activities. We also learned few specific surprises; 1) sushi and banana caused to shoot up BG to near 200; 2) my wife's BG did not dropped for very long time (more than an hour). Since then, my wife has been paying more attention to our diets and her exercise. She told me that she could sense her BG level went up sometimes. Then, she ran down to a treadmill for about an hour exercise. Now, she usually has a very light dinner or skip it sometimes. I usually have a big dinner and it is not as much fun with an eating companion. Few days ago, I suggested inhaled insulin (Afrezza) to her for her prediabetic care and gave her a copy of the VDEX white paper. Immediately, she objected using inhaled insulin for two reasons; 1) inhaled medication is hard to control dose; 2) if we start to take insulin from outside, our body will stop producing insulin and all beta cells will die soon, resulting in 100% drug dependency in near future. She promised me to read VDEX white paper. She used to be a registered nurse, turned to a biostatistician, now retired, only trusting correctly-done-peer-reviewed-publications. Are there peer reviewed papers to answer her two questions/objections? I would love to have easy answers for me to convince her, if possible. Thanks in advance! InvestorSam,
It's dismaying how much disinformation is disseminated about the benefits-v-harm of early insulin therapy, particularly considering that your wife was a registered nurse - although HCPs aren't expected to know a lot outside their particular field of medicine.
Although I have links to more exhaustive research, I recommend this article and think it might be a good read for you and your wife and a starting point to discuss early adoption of insulin treatment.
www.diabetesincontrol.com/early-short-term-intensive-insulin-causes-the-remission-of-type-2-diabetes/
Good fortune to you and your wife. 
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Post by peppy on Aug 22, 2017 11:45:44 GMT -5
in reply, to you both.
quote: You lost me on that one Ms Peopy. Are you trying to say we are or are not making decisions based upon sucrose levels? I've not been concerned about sucrose levels. Should I be?
Reply: personally if I saw how what I am eating affects my glucose level, it may have some effect on my behavior. sucrose (table sugar) found in many things I eat. Even wheat thins. Some breads, etc.
quote: Sounds like she is wanting to address it with diet and exercise, which would be preferable to exogenous insulin (even if helping my investment), but taking meal time insulin is simply taking the post meal stress off the pancreas due to the increased demand related to T2 loss of insulin sensitivity. The pancreas is still doing work 24/7.
reply: I do not want anything. I was typing about food choices and the affect on blood glucose.
Dream, you do know what we put in our mouths affects glucose levels, correct?
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Post by InvesterSam on Aug 22, 2017 11:45:52 GMT -5
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Post by peppy on Aug 22, 2017 11:49:23 GMT -5
Mayo has to say that. Metformin is the first thing on the standards of care. www.screencast.com/t/nOwBa4aaA
Physicians have to follow standards of care.
(They are in the army now, not behind a plow, they will never get rich, digging a ditch, they are in the army now.)
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Post by zuegirdor on Aug 22, 2017 11:55:47 GMT -5
investor sam, I kind of did the same regarding glucose monitoring.
for the fun of it, since I had @ 60 glucose sticks to stick in a glucose monitor I did the same. A morning glucose. A glucose prior and after meals, observing what I had been eating.
One night I had some butterscotch schnapps. That sent me glucose to 200.
It was interesting to see how the food I ate affected glucose levels.
Too bad we are all making our decisions in this day and age of high sucrose content in our foods while blind to blood glucose levels.
Listening to the people at hypocrites institute if we want to eat just greens control and be reestablished.
hippocratesinst.org/blog
they are pretty much just raw.
Personally, I can not imagine a cold beet soup with cabbage. They show how to sprout beans. they are into spouts.
Chlorophyll, they want people to get chlorophyll, the energy from the sun.
I am trying to stay close to GBOMBS. Joel Fuhrman.
Greens, Beans, onions, mushrooms, berries and seeds.
www.drfuhrman.com/learn/the-nutritarian-diet
Hypocrites institute, does even want people to eat the berries, saying the glucose load is too high.
Interesting gig how our bodies react to food.
I have been eating a lot of chili.
added: because I am crazy, see the nitrogen in the chlorophyll depiction, Nitrogen = protein. The magnesium, our body likes magnesium, it is the ion involved in the relaxation of the muscle in the contract, relax. additionally hypocrites wants our cells well oxygenated for the Krebs cycle. See the oxygen. interesting depiction.
"Too bad we are all making our decisions in this day and age of high sucrose content in our foods while blind to blood glucose levels." You lost me on that one Ms Peopy. Are you trying to say we are or are not making decisions based upon sucrose levels? I've not been concerned about sucrose levels. Should I be? buttin in here...my doc says to limit carbs to 40g per meal and no more than 6 teaspoons of "straight" sugar (whether its in your tea or in a cookie or ?) per day. After watching how straight sugar works in my type 1 son, I treat it like background radiation-avoid AMAP! |
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Post by InvesterSam on Aug 22, 2017 12:52:55 GMT -5
InvestorSam,
It's dismaying how much disinformation is disseminated about the benefits-v-harm of early insulin therapy, particularly considering that your wife was a registered nurse - although HCPs aren't expected to know a lot outside their particular field of medicine.
Although I have links to more exhaustive research, I recommend this article and think it might be a good read for you and your wife and a starting point to discuss early adoption of insulin treatment.
www.diabetesincontrol.com/early-short-term-intensive-insulin-causes-the-remission-of-type-2-diabetes/
Good fortune to you and your wife.
mnholdem, Could you lead me to few more peer-reviewed research articles? My wife does not trust me, only trusts data with good experimental design and analysis, a side-effect of being an associate editor of journal too long. More data and repeated results will make her convinced. She could go through the papers easily. When I tried to explain Afrezza on her prediabedic condition, she did not buy it. She said if Afrezza worked the way I described, MNKD should be $1,000 per share. She knows that I have invested in MNKD but not how big the position is. If she ask me to buy more MNKD shares I will let you know. p.s.: About 15 years ago, she worked on a research project on prostate cancer rate reduction by lycopene in tomatoes. After that study, we were buying loads of tomatoes at groceries or farmer's markets. Our two sons and I had to drank tomato drinks (ground with ice and little honeys every summer). You can consume a lot of tomatoes in a day when it is in a form of drink! |
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Post by mnholdem on Aug 22, 2017 13:34:55 GMT -5
This study involves over 800 patients and demonstrated that short-term intensive insulin therapy resulted in drug-free remission of diabetes for nearly half the trial patients.
onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/dmrr.2603/full
The conclusion of the medical team was that STII therapy should be adopted as a first line of treatment. They also acknowledged that the stigma associated with injections was a major barrier. This study and the research team's recommendations were published many years before Afrezza inhaled insulin was approved by the FDA. There are several additional studies that have been published more recently, but the study (above) is one of the most conclusive I have found.
Here is an excerpt:
Building on results of this trial and those of six other smaller trials of STII therapy, a meta-analysis involving 839 participants (including 251 patients randomized to STII therapy in the above study [44]) was performed and further underscored the robustness of the evidence supporting STII therapy [50]. In that analysis, 46% of patients remained in drug-free remission after 12 months. All but one study showed an improvement in beta-cell function, as assessed by homeostatic model assessment [HOMA]-B, and all but one study showed a decrease in insulin resistance, as assessed by HOMA-IR.
In the pooled data, the proportion of patients in drug-free remission was:
- 66.2% [292/441] at 3 months,
- 58.9% [222/377] at 6 months,
- 46.3% [229/495] at 12 months, and
- 42.1% [53/126] at 24 months.
These rates of remission are far greater than those that can be achieved with any other currently available medical therapy for diabetes.
---
There is also the article I reprinted and posted in our ProBoard Resources folder. The article itself is not peer-reviewed but its author references many peer-reviewed studies and it helps to explain the medical science behind why ultra-rapid-acting Afrezza works so well. mnkd.proboards.com/thread/3407/blood-sugar-101-tell-diabetes
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Post by InvesterSam on Aug 22, 2017 13:36:36 GMT -5
Mayo has to say that. Metformin is the first thing on the standards of care. www.screencast.com/t/nOwBa4aaA
Physicians have to follow standards of care.
(They are in the army now, not behind a plow, they will never get rich, digging a ditch, they are in the army now.)
My wife goes by laws, regulations, standards, and data, in that order. If what mango said in the following thread is true, only way overriding "the standards of practice of care" for her and taking Afrezza instead of metformin when she chooses to use medication for her prediabetic condition is strong supportive data and her common sense. May I have links or list of peer-reviewed papers? mnkd.proboards.com/thread/8421/when-standards-care-change |
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Post by goyocafe on Aug 22, 2017 13:48:06 GMT -5
Mayo has to say that. Metformin is the first thing on the standards of care. www.screencast.com/t/nOwBa4aaA
Physicians have to follow standards of care.
(They are in the army now, not behind a plow, they will never get rich, digging a ditch, they are in the army now.)
My wife goes by laws, regulations, standards, and data, in that order. If what mango said in the following thread is true, only way overriding "the standards of practice of care" for her and taking Afrezza instead of metformin when she chooses to use medication for her prediabetic condition is strong supportive data and her common sense. May I have links or list of peer-reviewed papers? mnkd.proboards.com/thread/8421/when-standards-care-changeI'm calling you out. New user with a "wife" that is highly critical of all of the data presented to you so far. Have her take metformin then since that's all that's proven and substantiated with all of the historical information available. Good luck. |
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