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Post by itellthefuture777 on Dec 30, 2018 17:44:41 GMT -5
People still don't realize that technospbere technology isn't limited to the dry powder..form..it is only approved for Afrezza in this form and..people do know it can deliver other drugs as a dry powder..but it seems somewhere along the way a few people never realized that Technosphere is a carrier that can also be designed for other indications subcutainoiusly..where it makes sense to do so..or as an aerosol..it's in the patent...also in animial studies technosphere was also delivered subcutanoiusly as well as inhaled..so..nasal delivery for example for another issue..technosphere may act as a stabilizer..not just a carrier..do people understand this or am I the only one that has this understanding?
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Post by wmdhunt on Dec 31, 2018 8:00:32 GMT -5
Thanks for your comment. I really don't understand this but want to. If you have the time and inclination, could you provide some more info? Perhaps MNKD could discuss this at some point, like at:
MannKind Corporation (NASDAQ: MNKD) will host a conference call on Friday, January 4, 2019 to discuss Company developments at 9:00 AM (Eastern Time).
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Post by sayhey24 on Dec 31, 2018 9:21:30 GMT -5
Itell - some time back we had many discussions on the potential use of TS insulin nasal delivered to treat alzheimers. I am not sure if any new research has been done over the last several years.
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Post by agedhippie on Dec 31, 2018 9:42:25 GMT -5
People still don't realize that technospbere technology isn't limited to the dry powder..form..it is only approved for Afrezza in this form and..people do know it can deliver other drugs as a dry powder..but it seems somewhere along the way a few people never realized that Technosphere is a carrier that can also be designed for other indications subcutainoiusly..where it makes sense to do so..or as an aerosol..it's in the patent...also in animial studies technosphere was also delivered subcutanoiusly as well as inhaled..so..nasal delivery for example for another issue..technosphere may act as a stabilizer..not just a carrier..do people understand this or am I the only one that has this understanding? What you are seeing is an artifact of the patent process. I have a couple of patents so I have been through this process. The way it works is that you have a core idea, and then the patent attorneys stretch it as far as they can in every direction. The aim seems to be (I am definitely not a patent attorney) to push the boundaries out to make the central idea harder to reach. For example, could you use technosphere subcutaneously? Yes I would expect you could if you put it into solution. What is the advantage of technosphere over current soluble powders (the glucagon kit for example)? None at all, but now the claim is out there to protect against people using technosphere subcutaneously. The fact that nobody would go that route because it is not cost effective is immaterial, it's about completeness. I had a similar case with one of my patents where the attorneys said could you do X with it to which my answer was yes but nobody in their right mind would. It's in the patent now not because they expect anyone to use it, but because now nobody can use it - making the central idea harder to approach. I find the patent process fascinating because it is so arcane. It seems more akin to chess than law. |
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Post by peppy on Dec 31, 2018 10:04:31 GMT -5
People still don't realize that technospbere technology isn't limited to the dry powder..form..it is only approved for Afrezza in this form and..people do know it can deliver other drugs as a dry powder..but it seems somewhere along the way a few people never realized that Technosphere is a carrier that can also be designed for other indications subcutainoiusly..where it makes sense to do so..or as an aerosol..it's in the patent...also in animial studies technosphere was also delivered subcutanoiusly as well as inhaled..so..nasal delivery for example for another issue..technosphere may act as a stabilizer..not just a carrier..do people understand this or am I the only one that has this understanding? easy read here itell, the mucosal treatment that liane pointed out to the brain of insulin therapy and Alzheimers. we realize what medications can do when introduced into the blood stream. It has been studied for years. Introvenous. Technosphere is in essence a form of intravenous. right into the capillary beds  ![]() then the left ventricle.  nasal mucosa and directly target the olfactory nerve (a direct extension of the brain) Read more: mnkd.proboards.com/thread/10769/inhaled-insulin-impoves-memory-alzheimers#ixzz5bH5nyJ3ksee the olfactory bulb and it's relationship to the frontal sinus?  |
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Post by itellthefuture777 on Dec 31, 2018 11:22:51 GMT -5
People still don't realize that technospbere technology isn't limited to the dry powder..form..it is only approved for Afrezza in this form and..people do know it can deliver other drugs as a dry powder..but it seems somewhere along the way a few people never realized that Technosphere is a carrier that can also be designed for other indications subcutainoiusly..where it makes sense to do so..or as an aerosol..it's in the patent...also in animial studies technosphere was also delivered subcutanoiusly as well as inhaled..so..nasal delivery for example for another issue..technosphere may act as a stabilizer..not just a carrier..do people understand this or am I the only one that has this understanding? What you are seeing is an artifact of the patent process. I have a couple of patents so I have been through this process. The way it works is that you have a core idea, and then the patent attorneys stretch it as far as they can in every direction. The aim seems to be (I am definitely not a patent attorney) to push the boundaries out to make the central idea harder to reach. For example, could you use technosphere subcutaneously? Yes I would expect you could if you put it into solution. What is the advantage of technosphere over current soluble powders (the glucagon kit for example)? None at all, but now the claim is out there to protect against people using technosphere subcutaneously. The fact that nobody would go that route because it is not cost effective is immaterial, it's about completeness. I had a similar case with one of my patents where the attorneys said could you do X with it to which my answer was yes but nobody in their right mind would. It's in the patent now not because they expect anyone to use it, but because now nobody can use it - making the central idea harder to approach. I find the patent process fascinating because it is so arcane. It seems more akin to chess than law. Technosphere is how Mannkind stabilized active monomeric human insulin that self assembles onto inert fpdk..a stabiler and aero dynamicly sized carrier..and chose the inhalation route because it uses the lungs that if stretched out would be the size of a tennis court so insulin goes systemically through the one cell this lung wall and is in the blood stream with less than a 30 seconds difference between it and a health pancreas..which shows a pkp profile spike that mimics the healthy individual..and then because it is active goes to work like the pancreases active monomeric human insulin..and then is out faster in and out than any other insulin delivered by a saline solution..and all other insulins today are in hexomeric form..which is inactive..so they are injected..which is slower..a needle..a sight scaring..then stay so long becaise the hexomeric has to dissassociate..into monomeric..while in the body..so other companies add B-3..to make that process a little faster but..still..to slow out..still a higher risk of a hypo..while Afrezza has left others remain..causing one to eat for that fear of a hypo..so they would gain weight while the Afrezza user would have weight neutral..less risk..of hypo..seems to me Afrezza then is a non inferior prandial insulin..for diabetes in the inhaled form..some leading KOL's say Afrezza halts progression..in a zero carb stidy had zero hypos in cased even when they ate nothing..all that makes sense..then I hear about Alziemers..and was wondering since others are using hexomeric insulin via the nasal in studies and seeing improved memory..if thay was another plausible application using technosphere in another form (which would have to be studied) that based on the faster active profile of monomeric (stabilized in Technosphere) verses non active hexomeric..I dunno..but thans for all the explianations |
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Post by MnkdWASmyRtrmntPlan on Dec 31, 2018 13:46:10 GMT -5
Thanks for your persistence after getting locked-down in your first attempt, Itel. This is an interesting question that I keep coming back to.
So, even though it may be included in the Afrezza patent, apparently, technosphere fdkp molecule does not work when delivered via nasal? (I believe aerosol may be an inappropriate term for Afrezza since it disperses colloidal solutions and not dry powders ... or is it?).
Has that ever been tested, or is it just clear or even obvious to wise folk that it is not possible?
If it was possible, then Alzheimer's prevention and treatment is probably a larger market than diabetes or any other application for technosphere.
Surely, Al thought this out clearly, but he created Afrezza for Diabetes. I wonder if he ever considered it for Alzheimer's. It was known that Alzheimer's is type-3 diabetes (insulin resistance of the brain) before he passed. The fdkp molecules may be too large for an aerosol mist, so, fine, leave it in the powder form and just roll up a dollar bill and snort it. You would look silly with a dreamboat up your nose.
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Post by liane on Dec 31, 2018 13:52:34 GMT -5
What I've been saying all along - you don't need Technosphere, Dreamboat, or Afrezza's monomer PK/PD to effectively instill insulin nasally for treatment of Alzheimer's. An OTC nasal spray bottle and aerosol insulin will work just fine.
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Post by joeypotsandpans on Dec 31, 2018 14:12:44 GMT -5
What I've been saying all along - you don't need Technosphere, Dreamboat, or Afrezza's monomer PK/PD to effectively instill insulin nasally for treatment of Alzheimer's. An OTC nasal spray bottle and aerosol insulin will work just fine. I nominate you to the hat trick of MNKD boards, the SAB, BOD, and continued head of PB's...there I've thrown my hat onto the rink for you!! Happy New Year Liane and all 😉😁 |
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Post by itellthefuture777 on Dec 31, 2018 14:20:13 GMT -5
What I've been saying all along - you don't need Technosphere, Dreamboat, or Afrezza's monomer PK/PD to effectively instill insulin nasally for treatment of Alzheimer's. An OTC nasal spray bottle and aerosol insulin will work just fine. I nominate you to the hat trick of MNKD boards, the SAB, BOD, and continued head of PB's...there I've thrown my hat onto the rink for you!! Happy New Year Liane and all 😉😁 To be clear..you "need" Technosphere to stabilize monomeric active insulin..and again..technosphere can be formulated into aerosol..thus..if in that form..and it is a nano medicine and a monomeric is smaller than a hexomeric..so ...if in the nasal..stabilized monomeric to the brain..with such a lower risk of hypo..it seems to me a better insulin to be in a clinical for this issue..on the surface..and would be interested in seeing the company evaluate the application.. |
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Post by liane on Dec 31, 2018 14:26:19 GMT -5
For the purpose of treating Alzheimer's, you don't need the monomer kinetics. Hexamer will do just fine. Speed is not the issue.
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Post by liane on Dec 31, 2018 14:27:28 GMT -5
What I've been saying all along - you don't need Technosphere, Dreamboat, or Afrezza's monomer PK/PD to effectively instill insulin nasally for treatment of Alzheimer's. An OTC nasal spray bottle and aerosol insulin will work just fine. I nominate you to the hat trick of MNKD boards, the SAB, BOD, and continued head of PB's...there I've thrown my hat onto the rink for you!! Happy New Year Liane and all 😉😁 Happy New Year to you as well!!! It should be a good one. |
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Post by itellthefuture777 on Dec 31, 2018 14:40:29 GMT -5
For the purpose of treating Alzheimer's, you don't need the monomer kinetics. Hexamer will do just fine. Speed is not the issue. I am not sure that is accurate based on mimicking the bodies pkp profile is rapid on and off..is better for the diabetic time in range and glycemic control..with less hypo risk..why would the brain not flow with the natural pancreas..I think it is a mistake in thought to user higher risk insulins..on many levels |
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Post by liane on Dec 31, 2018 14:48:27 GMT -5
Aerosol insulin would be a solution of insulin dispersed into micro droplets. It could be any form of insulin, but it would necessarily be hexameric since the hexamer <--> monmer kinetics are dependent on concentration. Any solution would be too concentrated to have any significant monomer concentration.
As with sub-Q injections, once the hexameric insulin disperses away from the point of entry, it eventually becomes dilute enough to dissociate into the monomeric form. I would expect no different with intranasal dispersion.
Treating Alzheimer's is a lot different than treating diabetic blood sugar levels; you're not looking for the fast in / fast out kinetics of TI.
The Amphastar insulin is human insulin. No modification needed by MNKD.
Bottom line - TI would be a huge overkill for an intranasal application to treat Alzheimer's.
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Post by itellthefuture777 on Dec 31, 2018 15:28:45 GMT -5
Aerosol insulin would be a solution of insulin dispersed into micro droplets. It could be any form of insulin, but it would necessarily be hexameric since the hexamer <--> monmer kinetics are dependent on concentration. Any solution would be too concentrated to have any significant monomer concentration. As with sub-Q injections, once the hexameric insulin disperses away from the point of entry, it eventually becomes dilute enough to dissociate into the monomeric form. I would expect no different with intranasal dispersion. Treating Alzheimer's is a lot different than treating diabetic blood sugar levels; you're not looking for the fast in / fast out kinetics of TI. The Amphastar insulin is human insulin. No modification needed by MNKD. Bottom line - TI would be a huge overkill for an intranasal application to treat Alzheimer's. ahh..you forget about the bbb..technosphere is nano..might actually access the brain..better...with a spike.it may need..again..would be good to at least have a study done..beyond the old insulins..it's the 90+ years of.."it's good enough" is why pharma is still churning money on inferior insulins..accepting patient hypo risk..I am glad ole Al..was persistant..and brought forth innovation..in the face of large pharma utter failures..lastly..if we don't try..or investigate...then what is our purpose of being if not to advance the science and understanding...do you fear failure? Are you a pessimist or opimist? Why the delay? You have the carrier..the tech..the people..and have shut it down with a false unproven premise planting a seed that.it wouldn't work or be better..without even a test or trial? Insulin resistance has been blamed for many brain ailments..maybe the brain would benedit from technosphere..who are we to say no? |
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