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Post by ktim on Mar 19, 2020 17:00:53 GMT -5
FWIW, I remember reading an article suggesting that the reason certain age groups were susceptible to the 1918 Spanish flu was caused by the type of flu that you first experienced as a child. If you were old or young enough your first flu was similar to the Spanish flu. If not, then you were first exposed to something quite different and were very susceptible to the Spanish variant. My Grandad (born in 1887) noted in his biography that he and one other seaman were the only ones on his ship that didn't come down with the Spanish flu--they took care of all the sick seaman on their tall ship while it was in the South Pacific. In his case, he grew up on a small island in the North Sea and might have missed experiencing that first flu that his peers did until later in life when he contracted a flu similar to the Spanish flu, i.e., it hit individuals in their mid to later 20's and not those older or younger. That definitely makes sense. And apparently a third theory as well. Likely hard to really know due to lack of testing and data from that period. Each sounds like a plausible explanation or contributing factor, but hard to figure out since it occurred 100 years ago. As cited below scientist think they've recreated the genetic sequence and at least in monkeys it causes death from cytokine storm. from wikipedia... Scientists offer several possible explanations for the high mortality rate of the 1918 influenza pandemic. Some analyses have shown the virus to be particularly deadly because it triggers a cytokine storm, which ravages the stronger immune system of young adults.[11] In contrast, a 2007 analysis of medical journals from the period of the pandemic[12][13] found that the viral infection was no more aggressive than previous influenza strains. Instead, malnourishment, overcrowded medical camps and hospitals, and poor hygiene promoted bacterial superinfection. This superinfection killed most of the victims, typically after a somewhat prolonged death bed.[14][15] ... An effort to recreate the 1918 flu strain (a subtype of avian strain H1N1) was a collaboration among the Armed Forces Institute of Pathology, the USDA ARS Southeast Poultry Research Laboratory, and Mount Sinai School of Medicine in New York City. The effort resulted in the announcement (on 5 October 2005) that the group had successfully determined the virus's genetic sequence, using historic tissue samples recovered by pathologist Johan Hultin from a female flu victim buried in the Alaskan permafrost and samples preserved from American soldiers.[130] On 18 January 2007, Kobasa et al. (2007) reported that monkeys (Macaca fascicularis) infected with the recreated flu strain exhibited classic symptoms of the 1918 pandemic, and died from cytokine storms[131] – an overreaction of the immune system. This may explain why the 1918 flu had its surprising effect on younger, healthier people, as a person with a stronger immune system would potentially have a stronger overreaction.[132] |
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Post by mnkdfann on Mar 19, 2020 17:11:05 GMT -5
... One other thing, not sure how many hospital ships there are, or whether the gov plans on refitting other naval ships as floating hospitals, but c'mon, look at all the really new, nice cruise ships just floating around doing nothing - rent those and get them refitted quick - a way to help the cruise line industry and to deal with this friggin mess. The bigger issue is equipping the floating and non-floating hospitals with all they need. Political pot-shots are down, but they should be totally OUT! All the people that dislike Trump might warm up to him some if he just said, "Look, as you all know, I like to spar roughly with my political enemies. But this is way too serious an issue, I will not longer respond to those who attack me, no time or energy for that, and you know what they're trying to do, anyway." Psychologically, not sure he can do that, but I think it would be a very helpful move. At least one cruise line announced a little earlier today that it wants to do something just like that. There is some skepticism as to whether this is really practical, or just a means to a cynical hidden bailout. seekingalpha.com/news/3553483-carnival-offers-cruise-ships-temporary-hospitals-in-turn-for-industryCarnival (NYSE:CCL), which just cut Capex and expenses due to the ongoing virus issues and cruise hiatus, extends offer to Governments and health authorities to use some ships as temporary hospitals. Select ships from Carnival Cruise Line, Holland America Line, Princess Cruises and P&O Cruises Australia are to be made available at a price that will cover "only the essential costs of the ship's operations while in port.'' Ships are estimated to be able to serve up 1,000 hospital rooms and be converted "quickly," with up to 7 intensive care units. |
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Post by peppy on Mar 19, 2020 17:34:12 GMT -5
... One other thing, not sure how many hospital ships there are, or whether the gov plans on refitting other naval ships as floating hospitals, but c'mon, look at all the really new, nice cruise ships just floating around doing nothing - rent those and get them refitted quick - a way to help the cruise line industry and to deal with this friggin mess. The bigger issue is equipping the floating and non-floating hospitals with all they need. Political pot-shots are down, but they should be totally OUT! All the people that dislike Trump might warm up to him some if he just said, "Look, as you all know, I like to spar roughly with my political enemies. But this is way too serious an issue, I will not longer respond to those who attack me, no time or energy for that, and you know what they're trying to do, anyway." Psychologically, not sure he can do that, but I think it would be a very helpful move. At least one cruise line announced a little earlier today that it wants to do something just like that. There is some skepticism as to whether this is really practical, or just a means to a cynical hidden bailout. seekingalpha.com/news/3553483-carnival-offers-cruise-ships-temporary-hospitals-in-turn-for-industryCarnival (NYSE:CCL), which just cut Capex and expenses due to the ongoing virus issues and cruise hiatus, extends offer to Governments and health authorities to use some ships as temporary hospitals. Select ships from Carnival Cruise Line, Holland America Line, Princess Cruises and P&O Cruises Australia are to be made available at a price that will cover "only the essential costs of the ship's operations while in port.'' Ships are estimated to be able to serve up 1,000 hospital rooms and be converted "quickly," with up to 7 intensive care units. Just throwing it out in the atmosphere, coronavirus is airborne. ventilation systems in the ship. My words: it aerosolizes and can travel 14 feet. I have it on a video, don't make me find it to prove it WHO considers ‘airborne precautions’ for medical staff after study shows coronavirus can survive in airWHO is considering “airborne precautions” for medical staff after a new study showed the coronavirus can survive in the air in some settings. The coronavirus can go airborne, staying suspended in the air depending on factors such as heat and humidity, WHO officials said. The World Health Organization is considering “airborne precautions” for medical staff after a new study showed the coronavirus can survive in the air in some settings. The virus is transmitted through droplets, or little bits of liquid, mostly through sneezing or coughing, Dr. Maria Van Kerkhove, head of WHO’s emerging diseases and zoonosis unit, told reporters during a virtual news conference on Monday. “When you do an aerosol-generating procedure like in a medical care facility, you have the possibility to what we call aerosolize these particles, which means they can stay in the air a little bit longer.” She added: “It’s very important that health-care workers take additional precautions when they’re working on patients and doing those procedures.” World health officials say the respiratory disease spreads through human-to-human contact, droplets carried through sneezing and coughing as well as germs left on inanimate objects. The coronavirus can go airborne, staying suspended in the air depending on factors such as heat and humidity, they said. www.cnbc.com/2020/03/16/who-considers-airborne-precautions-for-medical-staff-after-study-shows-coronavirus-can-survive-in-air.html?__source=twitter%7Cmain |
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Post by mango on Mar 19, 2020 17:43:48 GMT -5
Maybe they could attach some type of graphene filter to the ventilation systems in the ships?
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Post by uvula on Mar 19, 2020 18:00:41 GMT -5
The ship hospitals would be for non Corona virus patients so that the regular hospitals would have space for Corona virus patients.
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Post by mnkdfann on Mar 19, 2020 18:08:06 GMT -5
The ship hospitals would be for non Corona virus patients so that the regular hospitals would have space for Corona virus patients. He's right. The PR said: "With the continued spread of COVID-19 expected to exert added pressure on land-based healthcare facilities, including a possible shortage of hospital beds, Carnival Corporation and its brands are calling on governments and health authorities to consider using cruise ships as temporary healthcare facilities to treat non-COVID-19 patients, freeing up additional space and expanding capacity in land-based hospitals to treat cases of COVID-19." |
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Post by mannmade on Mar 19, 2020 18:10:59 GMT -5
Actually smart idea. They get good press and get paid by govt to lease ship and defray ant maintenance expenses on assets not able to use.
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Post by peppy on Mar 19, 2020 18:19:53 GMT -5
The ship hospitals would be for non Corona virus patients so that the regular hospitals would have space for Corona virus patients. He's right. The PR said: "With the continued spread of COVID-19 expected to exert added pressure on land-based healthcare facilities, including a possible shortage of hospital beds, Carnival Corporation and its brands are calling on governments and health authorities to consider using cruise ships as temporary healthcare facilities to treat non-COVID-19 patients, freeing up additional space and expanding capacity in land-based hospitals to treat cases of COVID-19." they better clean it with ultra violet light and beach. |
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Post by ktim on Mar 19, 2020 18:53:27 GMT -5
They might be able to rent an empty hotel cheaper per bed than a cruise ship. There are empty dorm rooms at state owned universities, many of which are nearby to their research hospitals.
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Post by mnholdem on Mar 20, 2020 5:30:00 GMT -5
Dorms may not have the essential services a cruise ship provides such as food services that can easily handle patients’ dietary restrictions. Laundry services would be another and everything is a commercial scale operation.
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Post by ktim on Mar 20, 2020 10:25:40 GMT -5
Dorms may not have the essential services a cruise ship provides such as food services that can easily handle patients’ dietary restrictions. Laundry services would be another and everything is a commercial scale operation. Yes, that's probably true. Scratch the dorms. It does seem like a lot of jurisdictions are looking into hotels. I've found articles that NY, CA and UK are all actively pursuing. |
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Post by mnkdfann on Mar 20, 2020 16:20:22 GMT -5
They might be able to rent an empty hotel cheaper per bed than a cruise ship. There are empty dorm rooms at state owned universities, many of which are nearby to their research hospitals. Many dorms are still occupied by out of state / out of province and foreign students. Universities are not (generally speaking) shutting down. They are just moving to online courses. But many if not most students in dorms are remaining where they are. And the universities are still providing food services to these students, along with many other services they usually offer. |
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Post by ktim on Mar 20, 2020 16:24:22 GMT -5
They might be able to rent an empty hotel cheaper per bed than a cruise ship. There are empty dorm rooms at state owned universities, many of which are nearby to their research hospitals. Many dorms are still occupied by out of state / out of province and foreign students. Universities are not (generally speaking) shutting down. They are just moving to online courses. But many if not most students in dorms are remaining where they are. And the universities are still providing food services to these students, along with many other services they usually offer. Geez, that was an awful idea. Who in the heck suggested that   |
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Post by babaoriley on Mar 20, 2020 16:46:22 GMT -5
... One other thing, not sure how many hospital ships there are, or whether the gov plans on refitting other naval ships as floating hospitals, but c'mon, look at all the really new, nice cruise ships just floating around doing nothing - rent those and get them refitted quick - a way to help the cruise line industry and to deal with this friggin mess. The bigger issue is equipping the floating and non-floating hospitals with all they need. Political pot-shots are down, but they should be totally OUT! All the people that dislike Trump might warm up to him some if he just said, "Look, as you all know, I like to spar roughly with my political enemies. But this is way too serious an issue, I will not longer respond to those who attack me, no time or energy for that, and you know what they're trying to do, anyway." Psychologically, not sure he can do that, but I think it would be a very helpful move. At least one cruise line announced a little earlier today that it wants to do something just like that. There is some skepticism as to whether this is really practical, or just a means to a cynical hidden bailout. seekingalpha.com/news/3553483-carnival-offers-cruise-ships-temporary-hospitals-in-turn-for-industryCarnival (NYSE:CCL), which just cut Capex and expenses due to the ongoing virus issues and cruise hiatus, extends offer to Governments and health authorities to use some ships as temporary hospitals. Select ships from Carnival Cruise Line, Holland America Line, Princess Cruises and P&O Cruises Australia are to be made available at a price that will cover "only the essential costs of the ship's operations while in port.'' Ships are estimated to be able to serve up 1,000 hospital rooms and be converted "quickly," with up to 7 intensive care units. Surely, serves more than just the humanitarian purpose, but so what, let's get it going if truly feasible. |
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Post by peppy on Mar 20, 2020 17:03:04 GMT -5
At least one cruise line announced a little earlier today that it wants to do something just like that. There is some skepticism as to whether this is really practical, or just a means to a cynical hidden bailout. seekingalpha.com/news/3553483-carnival-offers-cruise-ships-temporary-hospitals-in-turn-for-industryCarnival (NYSE:CCL), which just cut Capex and expenses due to the ongoing virus issues and cruise hiatus, extends offer to Governments and health authorities to use some ships as temporary hospitals. Select ships from Carnival Cruise Line, Holland America Line, Princess Cruises and P&O Cruises Australia are to be made available at a price that will cover "only the essential costs of the ship's operations while in port.'' Ships are estimated to be able to serve up 1,000 hospital rooms and be converted "quickly," with up to 7 intensive care units. Surely, serves more than just the humanitarian purpose, but so what, let's get it going if truly feasible. baba, are you on lock down? did you see my virus protection recipe?.... pound the vodka or gin and tonic, eat some nuts. Glad I could help. Pep |
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