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Post by ktim on Mar 19, 2020 10:06:48 GMT -5
I think at least one treatment for the virus will be found quite soon. Question is, when will it be released for public use? Get some folks on death row to volunteer to get infected in return for a commutation of their death sentence and being sent to a "nicer" prison. For a healthy young adult, the risk of signing up for a trial may not be as big as enlisting in the service at the start of WWII. And offer a nice payday for those that are willing. And sometime soon after a few treatments come on line, a vaccine should appear, but more important to find something that will kill the friggin bug, but leave the victim not too much worse for wear. One other thing, not sure how many hospital ships there are, or whether the gov plans on refitting other naval ships as floating hospitals, but c'mon, look at all the really new, nice cruise ships just floating around doing nothing - rent those and get them refitted quick - a way to help the cruise line industry and to deal with this friggin mess. The bigger issue is equipping the floating and non-floating hospitals with all they need. If I were 20 I'd probably volunteer to be a guinea pig for vaccine including intentional exposure. I suspect US medical system would never go there based on ethics. We may need to count on Chinese imposing that on some of their minorities. (wish I could say I was totally joking) That strategy doesn't really work as well regarding treatment. To find out if a treatment works for those seriously ill, it really has to be tested on the seriously ill. There are only 2 US hospital ships. Refitting ships would likely be much slower than other solutions. MASH style hospitals are designed to go up quickly. Ships are full of steel bulkheads and such that make retrofitting slow and difficult. |
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Post by uvula on Mar 19, 2020 10:11:52 GMT -5
You all you started and made political comments should delete them before the mods take a lunch break and lock this thread Why did you post "liberals are crazy"? Isn't that a (stupid) political comment? |
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Post by brotherm1 on Mar 19, 2020 10:12:35 GMT -5
I deleted it
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Post by ktim on Mar 19, 2020 10:14:32 GMT -5
CEO of Merck said on CNBC it’ll be at least 18 months before there’s a cure. Wonder what he meant by cure... a vaccine? We have anti-virals for flu and other viruses that help speed recovery, but those normally aren't referred to as cures. It seems there are some promising signs that some existing drugs may be effective as anti-virals against COVID and more to come. If they are APIs that have already been proven safe, it's just a matter of showing they are effective against this particular virus. Fingers crossed. |
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Post by rfogel on Mar 19, 2020 10:42:01 GMT -5
CEO of Merck said on CNBC it’ll be at least 18 months before there’s a cure. Wonder what he meant by cure... a vaccine? We have anti-virals for flu and other viruses that help speed recovery, but those normally aren't referred to as cures. It seems there are some promising signs that some existing drugs may be effective as anti-virals against COVID and more to come. If they are APIs that have already been proven safe, it's just a matter of showing they are effective against this particular virus. Fingers crossed. Is it even worth pursuing a cure? It's been documented that up to 90% of the infected population will show minimal symptoms, so perhaps the best route is to look for therapies that minimize the ill effects: www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)30628-0/fulltext"COVID-19: consider cytokine storm syndromes and immunosuppression... ...However, in hyperinflammation, immunosuppression is likely to be beneficial. Re-analysis of data from a phase 3 randomised controlled trial of IL-1 blockade (anakinra) in sepsis, showed significant survival benefit in patients with hyperinflammation, without increased adverse events. A multicentre, randomised controlled trial of tocilizumab (IL-6 receptor blockade, licensed for cytokine release syndrome), has been approved in patients with COVID-19 pneumonia and elevated IL-6 in China (ChiCTR2000029765).9 Janus kinase (JAK) inhibition could affect both inflammation and cellular viral entry in COVID-19.10" So maybe simply turning the immune system off or at least tuning its response down might be a better approach. |
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Post by ktim on Mar 19, 2020 10:58:45 GMT -5
Wonder what he meant by cure... a vaccine? We have anti-virals for flu and other viruses that help speed recovery, but those normally aren't referred to as cures. It seems there are some promising signs that some existing drugs may be effective as anti-virals against COVID and more to come. If they are APIs that have already been proven safe, it's just a matter of showing they are effective against this particular virus. Fingers crossed. Is it even worth pursuing a cure? It's been documented that up to 90% of the infected population will show minimal symptoms, so perhaps the best route is to look for therapies that minimize the ill effects: www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)30628-0/fulltext"COVID-19: consider cytokine storm syndromes and immunosuppression... ...However, in hyperinflammation, immunosuppression is likely to be beneficial. Re-analysis of data from a phase 3 randomised controlled trial of IL-1 blockade (anakinra) in sepsis, showed significant survival benefit in patients with hyperinflammation, without increased adverse events. A multicentre, randomised controlled trial of tocilizumab (IL-6 receptor blockade, licensed for cytokine release syndrome), has been approved in patients with COVID-19 pneumonia and elevated IL-6 in China (ChiCTR2000029765).9 Janus kinase (JAK) inhibition could affect both inflammation and cellular viral entry in COVID-19.10" So maybe simply turning the immune system off or at least tuning its response down might be a better approach. This type of virus always goes away one way or the other... unlike say herpes or hepatitis. If a cure is referring to slowing or stopping the replication within the body then it would be something that would minimize the ill effects as it's shortening the length of damage being done. Though there could be others that would address the symptoms directly. I've been really curious about the reports of cytokine storm related to COVID. I'm no expert in the field but I remember reading that the 1918/9 flu was so devastating because it hit the young and healthy very hard and not so much the old. The reason given that I saw was that the risk of cytokine storm was higher among the young with very robust immune systems and it was blunted in the old with weakened immune response. That would seem inconsistent with the idea that cytokine storm is a uniquely bad problem with COVID, since it seems to have the opposite age demographics. Anyone have any thoughts/insights on that? |
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Post by peppy on Mar 19, 2020 12:00:11 GMT -5
The press conference has specific references to chloroquine. here is why. I am going to post this here because it was officially mentioned. IF MNKD can get hydrooxychloroquanine on technosphere, we may have something.  |
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Post by porkini on Mar 19, 2020 12:33:59 GMT -5
The press conference has specific references to chloroquine. here is why. I am going to post this here because it was officially mentioned. IF MNKD can get hydrooxychloroquanine on technosphere, we may have something. How about if we all just drink a lot of tonic water, maybe with a bit of gin?  en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quinine |
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Post by peppy on Mar 19, 2020 12:43:16 GMT -5
porkini you may have something there. The chloroquine allows the ZINC to enter the infected human cell. That is what is being done. We have zinc in the extraceller I guess, I would boost that as well. 
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Post by goyocafe on Mar 19, 2020 12:47:42 GMT -5
“Trump also said Thursday the government should take an equity stake in companies that need bailouts because of the devastating effects of the coronavirus on the U.S. economy, saying he has executive authority to curb the impact on businesses.”
MNKD a model U.S. company prime for an equity stake by the U.S. government.
1. Drugs made in the USA.
2. In dire need of equity to drive drug development.
Does Kresa still have any friends in high places, and the energy and drive to do something about it?
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Post by mango on Mar 19, 2020 13:02:20 GMT -5
Is it even worth pursuing a cure? It's been documented that up to 90% of the infected population will show minimal symptoms, so perhaps the best route is to look for therapies that minimize the ill effects: www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)30628-0/fulltext"COVID-19: consider cytokine storm syndromes and immunosuppression... ...However, in hyperinflammation, immunosuppression is likely to be beneficial. Re-analysis of data from a phase 3 randomised controlled trial of IL-1 blockade (anakinra) in sepsis, showed significant survival benefit in patients with hyperinflammation, without increased adverse events. A multicentre, randomised controlled trial of tocilizumab (IL-6 receptor blockade, licensed for cytokine release syndrome), has been approved in patients with COVID-19 pneumonia and elevated IL-6 in China (ChiCTR2000029765).9 Janus kinase (JAK) inhibition could affect both inflammation and cellular viral entry in COVID-19.10" So maybe simply turning the immune system off or at least tuning its response down might be a better approach. This type of virus always goes away one way or the other... unlike say herpes or hepatitis. If a cure is referring to slowing or stopping the replication within the body then it would be something that would minimize the ill effects as it's shortening the length of damage being done. Though there could be others that would address the symptoms directly. I've been really curious about the reports of cytokine storm related to COVID. I'm no expert in the field but I remember reading that the 1918/9 flu was so devastating because it hit the young and healthy very hard and not so much the old. The reason given that I saw was that the risk of cytokine storm was higher among the young with very robust immune systems and it was blunted in the old with weakened immune response. That would seem inconsistent with the idea that cytokine storm is a uniquely bad problem with COVID, since it seems to have the opposite age demographics. Anyone have any thoughts/insights on that? Never knew that, fascinating. So what was it? More cytokines in younger, healthy people? Something linked to cytokines? Or maybe a receptor on an immune cell interacting with cytokines? I don't really know enough about it, just sounds really interesting. |
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Post by jkendra on Mar 19, 2020 13:27:22 GMT -5
The press conference has specific references to chloroquine. here is why. I am going to post this here because it was officially mentioned. IF MNKD can get hydrooxychloroquanine on technosphere, we may have something. Agreed. |
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Post by bill on Mar 19, 2020 13:33:23 GMT -5
FWIW, I remember reading an article suggesting that the reason certain age groups were susceptible to the 1918 Spanish flu was caused by the type of flu that you first experienced as a child. If you were old or young enough your first flu was similar to the Spanish flu. If not, then you were first exposed to something quite different and were very susceptible to the Spanish variant.
My Grandad (born in 1887) noted in his biography that he and one other seaman were the only ones on his ship that didn't come down with the Spanish flu--they took care of all the sick seaman on their tall ship while it was in the South Pacific. In his case, he grew up on a small island in the North Sea and might have missed experiencing that first flu that his peers did until later in life when he contracted a flu similar to the Spanish flu, i.e., it hit individuals in their mid to later 20's and not those older or younger.
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Post by ktim on Mar 19, 2020 15:46:17 GMT -5
This type of virus always goes away one way or the other... unlike say herpes or hepatitis. If a cure is referring to slowing or stopping the replication within the body then it would be something that would minimize the ill effects as it's shortening the length of damage being done. Though there could be others that would address the symptoms directly. I've been really curious about the reports of cytokine storm related to COVID. I'm no expert in the field but I remember reading that the 1918/9 flu was so devastating because it hit the young and healthy very hard and not so much the old. The reason given that I saw was that the risk of cytokine storm was higher among the young with very robust immune systems and it was blunted in the old with weakened immune response. That would seem inconsistent with the idea that cytokine storm is a uniquely bad problem with COVID, since it seems to have the opposite age demographics. Anyone have any thoughts/insights on that? Never knew that, fascinating. So what was it? More cytokines in younger, healthy people? Something linked to cytokines? Or maybe a receptor on an immune cell interacting with cytokines? I don't really know enough about it, just sounds really interesting. I think most of what has been written is educated speculation about the rather odd age demographics of the 1918 flu. We do absolutely know that more than any other influenza it hit young adults much more heavily than normal, even worse the the old apparently. As to why, I think they are simply making educated guesses as tests were very limited and concepts like cytokine storms weren't known. Now that cytokine storms are known, I think they finally believe they've hit open something that might explain why a young and otherwise very healthy person would have fared so badly. So the speculation is there was something unique about that year's flu virus that made it likely to trigger an immuno overreaction, but otherwise wasn't particularly deadly. So those with weakened immune systems from old age fared better than the young and healthy where if an overreaction was triggered their immune systems were robust enough to cause serious damage. Probably no way of knowing for sure, but important insight if the same age demographic pattern of severity were to pop up with flu or something else sometime in the future. However, that understanding I have seems somewhat inconsistent with COVID-19 age demographics if cytokine storms are indeed a big risk factor. |
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Post by mango on Mar 19, 2020 16:08:43 GMT -5
FWIW, I remember reading an article suggesting that the reason certain age groups were susceptible to the 1918 Spanish flu was caused by the type of flu that you first experienced as a child. If you were old or young enough your first flu was similar to the Spanish flu. If not, then you were first exposed to something quite different and were very susceptible to the Spanish variant. My Grandad (born in 1887) noted in his biography that he and one other seaman were the only ones on his ship that didn't come down with the Spanish flu--they took care of all the sick seaman on their tall ship while it was in the South Pacific. In his case, he grew up on a small island in the North Sea and might have missed experiencing that first flu that his peers did until later in life when he contracted a flu similar to the Spanish flu, i.e., it hit individuals in their mid to later 20's and not those older or younger. That definitely makes sense. |
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