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Post by shawnonafrezza on Jul 25, 2020 18:52:58 GMT -5
Most people should ware a CGM for a few weeks sick or not. You'd be surprised by the results. I think the number is only 12% of Americans are metabolically healthy. You don't need sugar iq to see that damage. COVID was the match but we already covered ourselves in gasoline.
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Post by itellthefuture777 on Jul 25, 2020 20:16:22 GMT -5
My guess is that the virus goes in and first starts to fill the cell insulin key way..(layman terms)..to extract energy..the pancreas shuts off insulin production..thinking insulin is already there..the virus then has more keyways into the cells..like a worm organism..Inhaled insulin..overrides by manually inhaling the insulin filling the keyways to the cells..that the virus tried to stop..insulin production..to have more keyways? Still Afrezza would mitigate or lesson the virus effect..as long as Afrezza was taken? Maybe I am wrong..true enough..just speculating from 10k ft..surely to figure it out you would need a #2 nano professor..not some quack quack biased investor..but Maybe this is why Niclosamide shuts down the virus like a tapeworm by interfering with it's ability to get energy to power itself..by having a key way that locks the virus..that with Afrezza filling the cell key way..I dunno..but I do find it interesting that an Afrezza user..got through it..makes the mind wonder..and I am not saying diabetics used to much insulin..just that maybe the lungs would be a place to deliver it..for prandial to combat the virus...if it combats the virus?
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Post by joeypotsandpans on Jul 25, 2020 22:15:42 GMT -5
Insulin..is an anti-inflammatory..and inhaled insulin goes to lungs..hmm An Afrezza user that had Covid-19...no ICU and feels fine..when in juxtaposition other diabetics are at a high rate of death.. This should send an alarm bell..I mean..it's sending one to me at least... Questions: 1. What insulins are diabetics on that died? 2. What insulins are diabetics on that had no ICU and are fine? Since Afrezza is used by a fraction of the diabetic community I would be shocked if no questionnaire has been sent directly to Afrezza users to even ask 1. Did you contract Covid-19? 2. Were you in ICU? 3. Are you over Covid-19? 4. What other drugs are you taking with Afrezza? 5. Are you using Afrezza alone? ect.. I dunno..is there a database today that shows a manufacturer..all drugs a patient is on..and if they got Covid-19 and what their outcomes where? I am wondering because Michael Castagna once said how surprized he was that Kaiser and insurances don't follow outcomes...ect..he was frustrated about that I recall.. So here we are on the flip side..Where is the outcomes data on Afrezza and Covid-19 infected populations? Anyways-Glad to see an Afrezza user getting over Covid-19 that is really good news! |
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Post by itellthefuture777 on Jul 25, 2020 23:10:02 GMT -5
Insulin..is an anti-inflammatory..and inhaled insulin goes to lungs..hmm An Afrezza user that had Covid-19...no ICU and feels fine..when in juxtaposition other diabetics are at a high rate of death.. This should send an alarm bell..I mean..it's sending one to me at least... Questions: 1. What insulins are diabetics on that died? 2. What insulins are diabetics on that had no ICU and are fine? Since Afrezza is used by a fraction of the diabetic community I would be shocked if no questionnaire has been sent directly to Afrezza users to even ask 1. Did you contract Covid-19? 2. Were you in ICU? 3. Are you over Covid-19? 4. What other drugs are you taking with Afrezza? 5. Are you using Afrezza alone? ect.. I dunno..is there a database today that shows a manufacturer..all drugs a patient is on..and if they got Covid-19 and what their outcomes where? I am wondering because Michael Castagna once said how surprized he was that Kaiser and insurances don't follow outcomes...ect..he was frustrated about that I recall.. So here we are on the flip side..Where is the outcomes data on Afrezza and Covid-19 infected populations? Anyways-Glad to see an Afrezza user getting over Covid-19 that is really good news! Actually this is the article I reviewed that has me saying what I'm saying..thanks for finding it! This one is interesting around a database build www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMc2018688 |
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Post by matt on Jul 26, 2020 6:54:31 GMT -5
The available evidence suggest that both insulin and Vitamin D exert their effects by their effects on the toll-like receptors which are usually the starting point for an severe inflammatory reaction. Vitamin D, in particular, up-regulates production of cathelicidins and defensins which are two classes of molecules that attack pathogens as part of the immune response. Neither insulin nor Vitamin D are a cure for viral pathogens, but they do help to maintain immune competency for those who would otherwise be immune compromised.
The growing body of evidence is that all the people who have been exposed to COVID but who either were asymptomatic or recovered spontaneously without suffering significant effects did so through activation of T-cell responses from a healthy immune system. That is why many of these recovering patients do not test positive for antibodies, which are produced by B-cells rather than T-cells, and it also explains why COVID has a more severe set of implications for older patients because the innate ability to mount strong T-cell responses declines with age. T and B cells are both part of the immune system, but they work in different ways and B cell responses normally need T-helper cells to accomplish their effect while T-cell immunity can often do the job by itself. Either way, a strong immune system is your best defense against any pathogen.
So no, Afrezza is not a magic bullet that will kill off COVID, but a healthy immune system might. If you are a diabetic and your disease is not well-controlled then now is a really good time to get it under control. If you live in a northern climate or do not get outdoors very much, a little extra Vitamin D in your diet (or via supplements) is not a bad idea either.
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Post by joeypotsandpans on Jul 26, 2020 9:44:07 GMT -5
The available evidence suggest that both insulin and Vitamin D exert their effects by their effects on the toll-like receptors which are usually the starting point for an severe inflammatory reaction. Vitamin D, in particular, up-regulates production of cathelicidins and defensins which are two classes of molecules that attack pathogens as part of the immune response. Neither insulin nor Vitamin D are a cure for viral pathogens, but they do help to maintain immune competency for those who would otherwise be immune compromised. The growing body of evidence is that all the people who have been exposed to COVID but who either were asymptomatic or recovered spontaneously without suffering significant effects did so through activation of T-cell responses from a healthy immune system. That is why many of these recovering patients do not test positive for antibodies, which are produced by B-cells rather than T-cells, and it also explains why COVID has a more severe set of implications for older patients because the innate ability to mount strong T-cell responses declines with age. T and B cells are both part of the immune system, but they work in different ways and B cell responses normally need T-helper cells to accomplish their effect while T-cell immunity can often do the job by itself. Either way, a strong immune system is your best defense against any pathogen. So no, Afrezza is not a magic bullet that will kill off COVID, but a healthy immune system might. If you are a diabetic and your disease is not well-controlled then now is a really good time to get it under control. If you live in a northern climate or do not get outdoors very much, a little extra Vitamin D in your diet (or via supplements) is not a bad idea either. Not that simple, my wife works ICU, the beds are full with covid, the last two weeks they lost a 23 yr and 28 yr. old, both had NO co-morbidities and who were perfectly healthy and have grown up in southern nevada where there's few days annually without sunshine. The person I contracted the disease from is 15yrs. younger than I and again no co-morbities and living in southern nevada most of his life. He ended up in hospital on oxygen for 5 days. I'm convinced it's more than a coincidence that inhaling monomeric insulin directly into my lungs played a critical role in keeping my covid under control and ultimately keeping me out of the hospital and off a ventilator. Having now read that NIH clinical study regarding the anti-inflammatory effects of insulin it now makes perfect sense that my use of Afrezza unknowingly helped my battle as a higher at risk T2 ward off some of the more devastating effects of this formidable virus. |
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Post by itellthefuture777 on Jul 26, 2020 10:06:55 GMT -5
The available evidence suggest that both insulin and Vitamin D exert their effects by their effects on the toll-like receptors which are usually the starting point for an severe inflammatory reaction. Vitamin D, in particular, up-regulates production of cathelicidins and defensins which are two classes of molecules that attack pathogens as part of the immune response. Neither insulin nor Vitamin D are a cure for viral pathogens, but they do help to maintain immune competency for those who would otherwise be immune compromised. The growing body of evidence is that all the people who have been exposed to COVID but who either were asymptomatic or recovered spontaneously without suffering significant effects did so through activation of T-cell responses from a healthy immune system. That is why many of these recovering patients do not test positive for antibodies, which are produced by B-cells rather than T-cells, and it also explains why COVID has a more severe set of implications for older patients because the innate ability to mount strong T-cell responses declines with age. T and B cells are both part of the immune system, but they work in different ways and B cell responses normally need T-helper cells to accomplish their effect while T-cell immunity can often do the job by itself. Either way, a strong immune system is your best defense against any pathogen. So no, Afrezza is not a magic bullet that will kill off COVID, but a healthy immune system might. If you are a diabetic and your disease is not well-controlled then now is a really good time to get it under control. If you live in a northern climate or do not get outdoors very much, a little extra Vitamin D in your diet (or via supplements) is not a bad idea either. Actually Afrezza being inhaled filling the keyways the Covid wants to fill but can't holds off inflammation response..while the body then buys time to create the antibodies..is my guess.. |
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Post by bababooey on Jul 26, 2020 12:07:17 GMT -5
Insulin..is an anti-inflammatory..and inhaled insulin goes to lungs..hmm An Afrezza user that had Covid-19...no ICU and feels fine..when in juxtaposition other diabetics are at a high rate of death.. This should send an alarm bell..I mean..it's sending one to me at least... Questions: 1. What insulins are diabetics on that died? 2. What insulins are diabetics on that had no ICU and are fine? Since Afrezza is used by a fraction of the diabetic community I would be shocked if no questionnaire has been sent directly to Afrezza users to even ask 1. Did you contract Covid-19? 2. Were you in ICU? 3. Are you over Covid-19? 4. What other drugs are you taking with Afrezza? 5. Are you using Afrezza alone? ect.. I dunno..is there a database today that shows a manufacturer..all drugs a patient is on..and if they got Covid-19 and what their outcomes where? I am wondering because Michael Castagna once said how surprized he was that Kaiser and insurances don't follow outcomes...ect..he was frustrated about that I recall.. So here we are on the flip side..Where is the outcomes data on Afrezza and Covid-19 infected populations? Anyways-Glad to see an Afrezza user getting over Covid-19 that is really good news! This is an N=1. It’s ridiculous to try and make a correlation from a single antidotal experience when I can tell you there have been thousands (likely hundreds of thousands +) of diabetics with Covid who aren’t using Afrezza that did not require ICU care, let alone a ventilator. Using your rational, then we should be investigating if metformin provides protective effects against severe cases of Covid. One of the most ridiculous hypotheses I have read on here in awhile. Confirmation bias at its finest. |
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Post by itellthefuture777 on Jul 26, 2020 13:15:32 GMT -5
Insulin..is an anti-inflammatory..and inhaled insulin goes to lungs..hmm An Afrezza user that had Covid-19...no ICU and feels fine..when in juxtaposition other diabetics are at a high rate of death.. This should send an alarm bell..I mean..it's sending one to me at least... Questions: 1. What insulins are diabetics on that died? 2. What insulins are diabetics on that had no ICU and are fine? Since Afrezza is used by a fraction of the diabetic community I would be shocked if no questionnaire has been sent directly to Afrezza users to even ask 1. Did you contract Covid-19? 2. Were you in ICU? 3. Are you over Covid-19? 4. What other drugs are you taking with Afrezza? 5. Are you using Afrezza alone? ect.. I dunno..is there a database today that shows a manufacturer..all drugs a patient is on..and if they got Covid-19 and what their outcomes where? I am wondering because Michael Castagna once said how surprized he was that Kaiser and insurances don't follow outcomes...ect..he was frustrated about that I recall.. So here we are on the flip side..Where is the outcomes data on Afrezza and Covid-19 infected populations? Anyways-Glad to see an Afrezza user getting over Covid-19 that is really good news! This is an N=1. It’s ridiculous to try and make a correlation from a single antidotal experience when I can tell you there have been thousands (likely hundreds of thousands +) of diabetics with Covid who aren’t using Afrezza that did not require ICU care, let alone a ventilator. Using your rational, then we should be investigating if metformin provides protective effects against severe cases of Covid. One of the most ridiculous hypotheses I have read on here in awhile. Confirmation bias at its finest. N1 and Afrezza is a fraction of the diabetic community which is why they need to be measured as a separate group..questionnaires sent to each user of Afrezza..ect..and as far as Metformin we posted the warning documents against it's use with hydroxychloroquine..and FDA warnings and recalls on Metformin...and we think Afrezza not Metformine should be frontline..indeed a KOL fought for and uses Afrezza as frontline..back to statistics...when the severity is death..N1 is relevant..even 1 out of 100 parachutes not opening...corrective action investigation is mandatory..and ...vice versa..when life spared is N1..monitoring or questionnaire action can be taken to find out why...or to fine more than N1 in the Afrezza community...and again separately from the rest of the diabetic community using other insulins ect... |
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Post by agedhippie on Jul 26, 2020 15:04:22 GMT -5
Most people should ware a CGM for a few weeks sick or not. You'd be surprised by the results. I think the number is only 12% of Americans are metabolically healthy. You don't need sugar iq to see that damage. COVID was the match but we already covered ourselves in gasoline. I have amazing difficulty getting Type 2s to wear a CGM even briefly. Admittedly this is a sample size of only three, but all the same... I have even offered them a free sensor. These are people who I think would really benefit from it so they could see which foods did what (eat to your meter). |
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Post by agedhippie on Jul 26, 2020 15:25:06 GMT -5
This is an N=1. It’s ridiculous to try and make a correlation from a single antidotal experience when I can tell you there have been thousands (likely hundreds of thousands +) of diabetics with Covid who aren’t using Afrezza that did not require ICU care, let alone a ventilator. Using your rational, then we should be investigating if metformin provides protective effects against severe cases of Covid. One of the most ridiculous hypotheses I have read on here in awhile. Confirmation bias at its finest. N1 and Afrezza is a fraction of the diabetic community which is why they need to be measured as a separate group..questionnaires sent to each user of Afrezza..ect..and as far as Metformin we posted the warning documents against it's use with hydroxychloroquine..and FDA warnings and recalls on Metformin...and we think Afrezza not Metformin should be frontline..indeed a KOL fought for and uses Afrezza as frontline..back to statistics...when the severity is death..N1 is relevant..even 1 out of 100 parachutes not opening...corrective action investigation is mandatory..and ...vice versa..when life spared is N1..monitoring or questionnaire action can be taken to find out why...or to fine more than N1 in the Afrezza community...and again separately from the rest of the diabetic community using other insulins ect... First N=1 is not relevant by any measure. You are not going to get any attention at all with that. On the other hand metformin has been studied for COVID because it was required to understand if it should be discontinued while the patient was ill. The initial data was unclear, but as the number of cases has mounted the amount of data has increased and the result is clearer - Metformin found to reduce female death rates among those with COVID-19. Metformin " reduced COVID-19 death risks by 21 per cent to 24 per cent among the females who had become infected with the virus and had already been taking metformin." N=2,000. That is how you get taken seriously in a retrospective study, not N=1. |
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Post by Chris-C on Jul 26, 2020 15:45:29 GMT -5
bababooey wrote:
"This is an N=1. It’s ridiculous to try and make a correlation from a single antidotal experience when I can tell you there have been thousands (likely hundreds of thousands +) of diabetics with Covid who aren’t using Afrezza that did not require ICU care, let alone a ventilator. Using your rational, then we should be investigating if metformin provides protective effects against severe cases of Covid. One of the most ridiculous hypotheses I have read on here in awhile. Confirmation bias at its finest."
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my reply:
Actually, I think the comments by Itell, Peppy and Joey were simply speculating on mechanisms of infection and the potential benefits of Afrezza in being able to control conditions that contribute to inflammation (like elevated glucose levels, for example). I did not interpret anything written as anecdotal information posing as a biased conclusion. Perhaps I missed something.
I do agree that ultimately, the mechanisms for controlling the effects of the coronavirus and other pathogens can be found in a strong immune system. Immune systems are strengthened in several ways, but ultimately the endgame is reducing oxidative stress. Reduce oxidative stress and you go a long way toward balancing systems and supporting immune responses. People who understand this through their research on TLRs and immune system signaling are now doing studies that confirm what some predicted years ago: the 21st century is the age of advanced immunology. I'm tempted to assert that less progress than desired is being made in this arena because huge profits are still being made by continuing to focus on mechanisms derived from outdated paradigms.
Maybe the pandemic will help change this in the same way that it is leading to changes in the way we think about other things. Let's hope so.
Chris C
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Post by itellthefuture777 on Jul 26, 2020 17:06:08 GMT -5
First of all N1 survives Covid-19 warrants a questionnaire. The reason is in medical statistics you must consider "severity" which tosses out basic statistics when death is the severity and you have one N1 Afrezza user reporting he survived it required to make mandatory root cause investigation. E.g.. A questionnaire to all Afrezza users to collect information directly related to the original condition Covid-19...and the Afrezza user outcomes. That is where you will see greater statistical N to do a calculation of Afrezza occurrence of Covid-19 survival. If Afrezza has high survival rates in Covid-19 cases..that would be huge..just saying..where's the questionnaire..the data?...go get it! After all existing FDA approved drugs are supposed to be evaluated..my guess is Mannkind May already have that and has #2 nano professor doing some deep research into biomechanics of action..I dunno just make logical sense..to me anyways
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Post by joeypotsandpans on Jul 26, 2020 17:23:16 GMT -5
First of all N1 survives Covid-19 warrants a questionnaire. The reason is in medical statistics you must consider "severity" which tosses out basic statistics when death is the severity and you have one N1 Afrezza user reporting he survived it required to make mandatory root cause investigation. E.g.. A questionnaire to all Afrezza users to collect information directly related to the original condition Covid-19...and the Afrezza user outcomes. That is where you will see greater statistical N to do a calculation of Afrezza occurrence of Covid-19 survival. If Afrezza has high survival rates in Covid-19 cases..that would be huge..just saying..where's the questionnaire..the data?...go get it! So a poster came on here a bit irritated from the tone of their post and in a defensive manner and has to state the obvious...that I'm a sample size of 1...as peppy would say no chit sherlock. But as you state what would there be to lose in just sending out a survey to existing Afrezza users and try to obtain some more "anecdotal" evidence of a possible benefit? Rationally one might think, gee, let's see what happens if we get a sample size of 200 that might have contracted the virus and compare with a group of 200 PWD that used injectable insulin who had gotten it, etc.etc. No reason for other poster to get irritated, kind of find it amusing actually 🤔😅 |
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Post by agedhippie on Jul 26, 2020 19:39:49 GMT -5
First of all N1 survives Covid-19 warrants a questionnaire. The reason is in medical statistics you must consider "severity" which tosses out basic statistics when death is the severity and you have one N1 Afrezza user reporting he survived it required to make mandatory root cause investigation. E.g.. A questionnaire to all Afrezza users to collect information directly related to the original condition Covid-19...and the Afrezza user outcomes. That is where you will see greater statistical N to do a calculation of Afrezza occurrence of Covid-19 survival. If Afrezza has high survival rates in Covid-19 cases..that would be huge..just saying..where's the questionnaire..the data?...go get it! After all existing FDA approved drugs are supposed to be evaluated..my guess is Mannkind May already have that and has #2 nano professor doing some deep research into biomechanics of action..I dunno just make logical sense..to me anyways Does N1 survives COVID warrant a questionnaire? In a world of unlimited resources, why not? In the real world, not going to happen. Thousands of diabetics have survived COVID, why is the fact N1 survived significant enough to assign resources for as opposed to each of those other diabetics? The balance of probability heavily favors N1 to survive COVID since they are on Afrezza so you can rule out any lung comorbidities, and presumably their HbA1c is well controlled. If Mannkind wanted to do this (because nobody else will) then the way to go would be a retrospective survey of claims data from a big insurer tied against admissions and outcomes. That may well require an intermediary like a Satish Garg at the University of Colorado to do the actual research. The other source would be VDEX, but the sample size may be a bit small. |
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