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Post by buyitonsale on Aug 12, 2020 13:40:35 GMT -5
It is great that Vdex understands how to use Afrezza properly.
So, what it next ?
MNKD manufactures and markets Afrezza, they do not prescribe it, and only work with patients that reach out to them. They also work with doctors to market it (that is the problem area).
The only collaboration between MNKD and Vdex can be in the marketing space...
Please be specific about the ideas of how MNKD can fix the marketing to providers or marketing in general ... and once you have something, reach out to Castagna. It is obvious that all he wants to do is to improve Afrezza sales, so no conflict there...
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Post by awesomo on Aug 12, 2020 13:53:19 GMT -5
It is obvious that all he wants to do is to improve Afrezza sales his way.Fixed this for you.
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Post by sportsrancho on Aug 12, 2020 14:19:56 GMT -5
There’s no conflict. We were just discussing why so many people are feeling like it isn’t working.
My opinion is that you need to find doctors that are not afraid to prescribe it the way it works the best. And then just concentrate on those, like the doctor that’s having good results in Texas. But right now it seems like there’s more bad experiences being created than there are good. Which causes a lack of retention. And give lots of free samples!!
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Post by mytakeonit on Aug 12, 2020 14:44:09 GMT -5
When you say "give lots of free samples!!" ... that will ruin any accountant's day. Even for one that's been retired for over 25 years. But, that's mytakeonit
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Post by buyitonsale on Aug 12, 2020 15:36:32 GMT -5
In the past I have spoken about an idea for Vdex to acquire a large Endo practice, so that they can have more control over new Afrezza starts from a large existing patient base...
Somehow these large practices or medical centers is where the focus should be.
Castagna mentioned something along these lines in the presentation yesterday.
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Post by nylefty on Aug 12, 2020 15:55:02 GMT -5
In the past I have spoken about an idea for Vdex to acquire a large Endo practice, so that they can have more control over new Afrezza starts from a large existing patient base... Somehow these large practices or medical centers is where the focus should be. Castagna mentioned something along these lines in the presentation yesterday. Or maybe Vdex should continue to specialize in treating diabetes, rather than taking on all the diseases and conditions that endo practices deal with.
Endocrinology, Diabetes and Metabolism An internist (endocrinologist) who specializes in the diagnosis and management of disorders of hormones and their actions, metabolic disorders, and neoplasia of the endocrine glands. This specialist cares for patients with diabetes mellitus, thyroid disorders, disorders of calcium and bone, hyperlipidemia, obesity and nutritional disorders, pituitary disorders, reproductive and gonadal disorders, adrenal diseases, and endocrine hypertension.
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Post by sportsrancho on Aug 12, 2020 17:37:48 GMT -5
I just listened to the whole presentation again and I didn’t hear anything like that.
Nevertheless do we know when in 2021 we’re getting approved? ...because the stock should run up eight months prior to the approval since that’s what has happened in the past.
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Post by cretin11 on Aug 12, 2020 18:28:56 GMT -5
In the past I have spoken about an idea for Vdex to acquire a large Endo practice, so that they can have more control over new Afrezza starts from a large existing patient base... Somehow these large practices or medical centers is where the focus should be. Castagna mentioned something along these lines in the presentation yesterday. What exactly did MC say along these lines? I would just like to hear him say he’s open to working with VDEX for starters.
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Post by sayhey24 on Aug 12, 2020 19:32:14 GMT -5
In the past I have spoken about an idea for Vdex to acquire a large Endo practice, so that they can have more control over new Afrezza starts from a large existing patient base... Somehow these large practices or medical centers is where the focus should be. Castagna mentioned something along these lines in the presentation yesterday. What exactly did MC say along these lines? I would just like to hear him say he’s open to working with VDEX for starters. MNKD manufactures a product. Could they invest in a company like Sanofi did with Onduo, sure - if they had the money. They don't. Now, what is it you would like Mike to do, to work with VDex? Do you want Mike to make VDex an afrezza distributor? If VDex was willing to sign a distributor agreement with quarterly minimum quotas I am sure he would. What else do you want Mike to do? On the other hand, what is stopping VDex from building a coast to coast diabetes clinic chain? Whats stopping VDex from developing partnerships with Urgent Care centers or something like CVS MinuteClinics. Neither deals with diabetes today but both get a lot of feet in the door who could be spot checked for diabetes and then recommended a free follow-up teledoc appointment with a VDex specialist. Of course the next question is how is this all going to get paid for? My understanding is one of the biggest gripes VDex has with MNKD is they are not giving them enough free product, aka samples. Then again, one of the biggest issues Mike has with VDex is all they do is call and call for free samples. I think all this could be negotiated in the distributor agreement. However, sooner or later someone has to pay. If VDex has that solved, great. If so whats stopping them and if not then VDex has some work to do. I keep seeing these GoLo commercials on TV. Maybe VDex can do something like GoLo that sells Release. Maybe VDex can buy technosphere insulin powder in bulk and sell insulin powder as a dietary supplement with a measuring spoon and straw (to inhale) and bundle in a service like Sugar IQ. If someone wants to stop insulin resistance, step one is to get BG under tight control and I bet afrezza will do a much better job than Release does. Bundle it with a low cal diet like GoLo and they may have a winner. In fact, VDex needs to call this a wellness program and not a virtue diabetes clinic. How exactly can Mike help, sell bulk afrezza and allow VDex to call it SGP (Super Glucose Powder)?
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Post by buyitonsale on Aug 12, 2020 20:44:47 GMT -5
He did not mention Vdex, he said, while discussing new commercialization strategy, that they are trying to see providers from larger medical groups... Trying to get into larger practices...
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Post by cretin11 on Aug 12, 2020 22:10:20 GMT -5
SeyHey you said:
“My understanding is one of the biggest gripes VDex has with MNKD is they are not giving them enough free product, aka samples. Then again, one of the biggest issues Mike has with VDex is all they do is call and call for free samples.”
That’s an interesting take on it. I would think MannKind would be eager to provide ample quantities of Afrezza to help get new patients indoctrinated into the regimen. Especially since VDEX seems to be the only outfit (or at least is the best at it) properly training patients on effective dosing protocol.
We should want patients to try it, even if free the first time. A successful introduction will mean that patient being a customer for life. I gotta side with VDEX here, if MannKind was being stingy with the samples or slow to deliver them, that’s not cool.
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Post by rickf on Aug 13, 2020 6:55:47 GMT -5
Not sure this is the right place for me to throw in my 2 cents worth but ---- a while ago I suggested that they concentrate (maybe 90%) their efforts in ONE spot in the US - make THAT spot a huge success then they could point to it so that all the other cities / states could SEE the success. This "scatter shot" that they are doing now does not seem to work well unless they had BAGS of money to saturate the market with ads. ---- Thoughts?
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Post by sportsrancho on Aug 13, 2020 7:38:45 GMT -5
Not sure this is the right place for me to throw in my 2 cents worth but ---- a while ago I suggested that they concentrate (maybe 90%) their efforts in ONE spot in the US - make THAT spot a huge success then they could point to it so that all the other cities / states could SEE the success. This "scatter shot" that they are doing now does not seem to work well unless they had BAGS of money to saturate the market with ads. ---- Thoughts? I remember you said that:-)👍🏻
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Post by brotherm1 on Aug 13, 2020 9:45:46 GMT -5
I just listened to the whole presentation again and I didn’t hear anything like that. Nevertheless do we know when in 2021 we’re getting approved? ...because the stock should run up eight months prior to the approval since that’s what has happened in the past. . So how long after submitting an NDA does it normally take for the FDA to make their decision?
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Post by agedhippie on Aug 13, 2020 10:40:25 GMT -5
I feel that a big problem is the dosing, and that is constrained by the label. Once doctors get over the idea that they can dose more heavily than the label says (as with VDex) then they get good results. However, I would be willing to bet that the majority would not be comfortable with the higher dosing because this is insulin and they are concerned about hypos.
At this point there are three options. Either educate a sizeable chunk of the doctors on correct dosing - good luck with that, in the words of the Princess Bride, "have fun storming the castle". Or run a trial to get the label changed which will automatically move the doctors to higher dosing. Really the trial is the only practical option. The third option, and the one management seem to be following, is to keep repeating what has been done before and hoping that this time the outcome will be different (spoiler alert: It won't).
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