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Post by gamblerjag on Jul 4, 2021 18:08:08 GMT -5
Dexcom has some very strong competition and they seriously need an edge which Afrezza would offer. However there is that fear factor that Dexcom might isolate themselves by having an excusive insulin that has very, very limited visibility. Afrezza competitors would automatically refer their clients wanting CGMs away from Dexcom. The conversion to Afrezza establishing it a well known and popular or even the absolute best of class insulin choice will take time and that would be dangerous to Dexcom. The other gorilla in the room is Medtronic who is very embedded at MNKD (intentionally) so even if Dexcom wanted Afrezza there would be a fire fight. My bet is the deal is already cut and Medtronic will absorb Afrezza as a highly leveraged partner giving Medtronic one stop shopping for diabetics = Ya, we have the pumps, the closed loop CGMs and the perfect fit insulin for total control = go ahead live you new life as a non-diabetic. Medtronic has a successful history with MNKD and they are going to duplicate that. It is so obvious I can't believe most can't see it. . Is it as obvious as all the things you said over the years that never transpired that many people (including myself) told you that were not going to happen?? I would love for that to be true but again I’m a guy who bets on averages and odds. Continued good luck with your guesses. |
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Post by cedafuntennis on Jul 5, 2021 10:41:21 GMT -5
Dexcom has some very strong competition and they seriously need an edge which Afrezza would offer. However there is that fear factor that Dexcom might isolate themselves by having an excusive insulin that has very, very limited visibility. Afrezza competitors would automatically refer their clients wanting CGMs away from Dexcom. The conversion to Afrezza establishing it a well known and popular or even the absolute best of class insulin choice will take time and that would be dangerous to Dexcom. The other gorilla in the room is Medtronic who is very embedded at MNKD (intentionally) so even if Dexcom wanted Afrezza there would be a fire fight. My bet is the deal is already cut and Medtronic will absorb Afrezza as a highly leveraged partner giving Medtronic one stop shopping for diabetics = Ya, we have the pumps, the closed loop CGMs and the perfect fit insulin for total control = go ahead live you new life as a non-diabetic. Medtronic has a successful history with MNKD and they are going to duplicate that. It is so obvious I can't believe most can't see it. . Is it as obvious as all the things you said over the years that never transpired that many people (including myself) told you that were not going to happen?? I would love for that to be true but again I’m a guy who bets on averages and odds. Continued good luck with your guesses. Why would MNKD limit themselves to one CGM? Better to form partnerships with all of them. Give discounts for volume to each. Like this you help the patients, the partner and us... |
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Post by prcgorman2 on Jul 5, 2021 11:38:41 GMT -5
. Is it as obvious as all the things you said over the years that never transpired that many people (including myself) told you that were not going to happen?? I would love for that to be true but again I’m a guy who bets on averages and odds. Continued good luck with your guesses. Why would MNKD limit themselves to one CGM? Better to form partnerships with all of them. Give discounts for volume to each. Like this you help the patients, the partner and us... Not sure what options and constraints are on “partnerships” with CGM manufacturers but I like your out-of-the-box thinking. Creative. |
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Post by uvula on Jul 5, 2021 11:53:17 GMT -5
Isn't a partnership with everyone the same as no partnership? It is equivalent to saying everyone is above average.
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Post by mikesmilitaria on Jul 5, 2021 13:03:31 GMT -5
It's not about MNKD limiting themselves it is about Medtronic buying in or buying out Afrezza to capture ALL rights to the perfect insulin match to their CGMs and pumps. Medtronic needs Afrezza which is THE answer to closed loop systems. Would they shut out the other mfg. of CGMs? NO they would not as that would be political suicide BUT Medtronic will have a more attractive price.
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Post by uvula on Jul 5, 2021 13:32:16 GMT -5
Mnkd needs to make 2 incompatible arguments at the same time. One is that afrezza give you great control without needing a pump. The other is that afrezza is necessary in order for an AP to perform optimally. And it is difficult to claim that an AP that requires afrezza is truly closed loop. Very tricky coming up with a partnership that helps both parties long term.
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Post by goyocafe on Jul 5, 2021 14:15:37 GMT -5
Why not figure out how to sell Afrezza, eliminate the known barriers, and let the chips fall where they will? If Afrezza had the corrected label, insurance coverage (without the prior authorization bs), and inclusion in the SOC with the ADA, Mannkind would never have to look for a sales partner, a promotional race car driver, or any other gimmick to sell the drug.
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Post by cedafuntennis on Jul 5, 2021 21:22:39 GMT -5
Now that is another story. One of the CGMs buying out Afrezza may be a possibility, however there is no benefit to them without the manufacturing plant and I am pretty sure that United has first dibs on it.
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Post by prcgorman2 on Jul 6, 2021 6:24:08 GMT -5
Mnkd needs to make 2 incompatible arguments at the same time. One is that afrezza give you great control without needing a pump. The other is that afrezza is necessary in order for an AP to perform optimally. And it is difficult to claim that an AP that requires afrezza is truly closed loop. Very tricky coming up with a partnership that helps both parties long term. Where’s agedhippie when you need him? I don’t think those are arguments or incompatible even if they were. I’ve seen more than one post from PWDs where they talk about using both RAA and Afrezza, and that makes perfect sense to me; Afrezza for first phase, and a lower dose of RAA with perhaps an additional (lower?) dose of Afrezza for spikes. The “argument” for CGMs and loops alike is control and time in range. What the pump lacks is knowledge of a meal the PWD is about to consume and a reservoir of non-RAA human insulin that it can inject directly into the bloodstream. Afrezza can fill that gap. My wife’s T1 uncle who passed away from COVID early this year used to visit at family gatherings and when he was looking at goodies for dessert he would adjust his pump, but it’s the wrong juice or not the best approach I guess I would say. At least, that’s what I’ve understood from PWDs who’ve posted and know much better than I do. |
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Post by uvula on Jul 6, 2021 7:39:04 GMT -5
Mnkd needs to make 2 incompatible arguments at the same time. One is that afrezza give you great control without needing a pump. The other is that afrezza is necessary in order for an AP to perform optimally. And it is difficult to claim that an AP that requires afrezza is truly closed loop. Very tricky coming up with a partnership that helps both parties long term. Where’s agedhippie when you need him? I don’t think those are arguments or incompatible even if they were. I’ve seen more than one post from PWDs where they talk about using both RAA and Afrezza, and that makes perfect sense to me; Afrezza for first phase, and a lower dose of RAA with perhaps an additional (lower?) dose of Afrezza for spikes. The “argument” for CGMs and loops alike is control and time in range. What the pump lacks is knowledge of a meal the PWD is about to consume and a reservoir of non-RAA human insulin that it can inject directly into the bloodstream. Afrezza can fill that gap. My wife’s T1 uncle who passed away from COVID early this year used to visit at family gatherings and when he was looking at goodies for dessert he would adjust his pump, but it’s the wrong juice or not the best approach I guess I would say. At least, that’s what I’ve understood from PWDs who’ve posted and know much better than I do. I don't disagree with anything you wrote, but it doesn't seem to be a response to what I wrote. By definition, closed loop means the person isn't part of the control system. The companies selling AP don't want to admit that they need help from inhaled insulin. The Aged one would probably say an AP without afrezza is good enough for most T1Ds, and would be much better than most T1Ds are doing today. |
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Post by casualinvestor on Jul 6, 2021 9:30:04 GMT -5
Afrezza COULD be marketed to different diabetics in different ways. Overly simplified:
T1s with AP (or basal) plus Afrezza for mealtime corrections. Basal would be the "more hassle but less electronics" way
T2s just Afrezza
I'm not sure Mannkind's messaging is good enough to push anything like that.
Relative to deals? If MNKD could find a buyer for Afrezza, and get setup with a deal similar to Tyvaso-DPI, that would be a good thing for the stock price. I'm not sure it would be a good thing for Afrezza users though. That would depend on the buyer
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Post by od on Jul 6, 2021 14:00:58 GMT -5
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Post by sayhey24 on Jul 6, 2021 18:34:55 GMT -5
As I started off this thread - Its time for DXCM to make a deal. T2 market penetration would be huge for DXCM and now with the medicare policy change afrezza is their ticket to the party. I am pretty sure the intent of the medicare policy change was not for early T2s but the horse is out of the barn. Afrezza can do for the early T2 PWD what no other medication can and not only stop the progression but in the long term significantly reduce medical costs.
As Kevin said in the article about T2s and CGM "A lot of the pushback is based on cost. These patients are very expensive within their own individual health systems, as far as the cost of treating the comorbidities that go along with late-stage Type 2 diabetes in particular. So, adding a sensor cost to that can be questioned."
Well - medicare has gone a long way to solving this problem. And for Kevin - you snooze and you could lose big but I am pretty sure he has Mike's number.
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Post by akemp3000 on Jul 6, 2021 20:36:28 GMT -5
Sayhey...IMO you're spot on. It sure seems time for all the players in this arena to start placing their bets. Some will win. Others will fold and lose. Partnering with Afrezza is a winner if it's played right. It's going to be quite interesting to see who places their bet and wants to play. As you said, those choosing to sit it out and snooze will lose. It's exciting to see the future of diabetes treatment unfolding before our very eyes, especially since the past and unfortunately current standard of care has been such a failure.
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Post by itellthefuture777 on Jul 8, 2021 3:47:39 GMT -5
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