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Post by sayhey24 on Oct 1, 2020 18:06:58 GMT -5
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Post by radgray68 on Oct 1, 2020 19:54:41 GMT -5
Kind of a naive question, but can we do a deal with Dexcom where we drop their product in our bag to sell and they start selling Afrezza? Is this done anywhere? And if we can, what about the others?
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Post by sportsrancho on Oct 1, 2020 19:57:53 GMT -5
That’s what I’ve hoped for for years but people keep telling me that Dexcom wouldn’t want to be exclusive... Or with SENS... Laura could be the spokes person for both:-)
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Post by radgray68 on Oct 1, 2020 20:05:54 GMT -5
So, maybe make it a non-exclusive, co-promotional campaign agreement? Just spit-balling. I would LOVE to be associated with CGM's as the ONLY ultra fast-acting insulin.
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Post by georgethenight2 on Oct 1, 2020 20:06:10 GMT -5
As the CGM market continues to smaller and more competitive, I am happy to remember the mantra, "Know what you own." Just need MC and co to show investors the littlest bit of traction and we are off to the races. Higher lows and higher highs. $UTHR Trep-T approval will be the icing on the cake IMO. A long strange journey it has been, but the goal is in sight. And unlike the CGM market, we have the only FDA approved inhalable insulin, which offers SO MANY more benefits than injectable. Essentially, a blank canvas for MNKD to paint.
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Post by cretin11 on Oct 1, 2020 20:26:14 GMT -5
As the CGM market continues to smaller and more competitive, I am happy to remember the mantra, "Know what you own." Just need MC and co to show investors the littlest bit of traction and we are off to the races. Higher lows and higher highs. $UTHR Trep-T approval will be the icing on the cake IMO. A long strange journey it has been, but the goal is in sight. And unlike the CGM market, we have the only FDA approved inhalable insulin, which offers SO MANY more benefits than injectable. Essentially, a blank canvas for MNKD to paint. All that has been true for five years, yet significant traction hasn’t occurred. I’m afraid the slightest bit of traction unfortunately won’t propel us off to the races, and the goal is more elusive than we ever thought it would be. It’s gonna continue to be a long tough slog, and hopefully our team has what it takes to get it done. |
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Post by mnkdfann on Oct 1, 2020 20:57:03 GMT -5
It seems to me the CGM market is about to change rapidly and DXCM better have a few tricks up their sleeve. Buying MNKD and controlling afrezza might be just the ticket. I would hate to see DXCM end up on the scrap heap. Then again I would not mind getting a nice stock offer from DXCM. 10 for 1 would get my attention. Adjusting for shares outstanding, that would be saying that Mannkind is worth about 1/5 the value of DexCom. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 1, 2020 23:53:29 GMT -5
I like your idea but here's another one. MNKD BUYS SENS. With a Market Cap of $97M....I can see MNKD a hookup. MNKD can sell the CGM, Spirometer and Afrezza.......Instant Mealtime Control.....ONE STOP SHOP. If SENS can get 180 or 360 Day Approval??? Could make sense. Going back in hibernation. |
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Post by kenken on Oct 2, 2020 0:07:54 GMT -5
I like this topic and very respectful of sayhey24's brilliant idea. It brings my good memory of Regeneron Pharmaceuticals, which was my first stock bought at $3 range many years ago. I was reading the report from WSJ, citing the correlation between Johnson & Johnson and Regeneron Pharmaceuticals. In the who's the who section, it mentioned Dr. George D. Yancopoulos, MD, Ph.D. was decent from J&J to Regeneron became a CEO. The company was at the moment on the brink. FDA had initially rejected phase III of the current very popular heart drug. The old CEO resigned etc., I made a handsome fortune though, because I was new at the stock market, not had a good experience, and sold the stock at double digits. I don't know what kind of relationship of MC with DXCM. But he said that Mannkind is not for sale if my memory was right.
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Post by sayhey24 on Oct 2, 2020 6:42:10 GMT -5
That’s what I’ve hoped for for years but people keep telling me that Dexcom wouldn’t want to be exclusive... Or with SENS... Laura could be the spokes person for both:-) Sports - if DXCM owned afrezza its a different game. They could provide the afrezza, dreamboat and CGM in one package. With the Libre 3 DXCM is facing a dramatic price decrease. What insurance company wants to pay 5x more for the G6/7 when the Libre 3 will provide similar results. Right now DXCM has a niche with the T1s because the Libre 2 is a NFC device and requires swiping. The Libre 3 changes all that and makes it a "real" CGM. The concern was always when the T1 was sleeping. That concern is now gone and the damn thing is the size of a penny. Its still a little bigger than the M&M CGM but not much. |
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Post by matt on Oct 2, 2020 7:20:37 GMT -5
Kind of a naive question, but can we do a deal with Dexcom where we drop their product in our bag to sell and they start selling Afrezza? Is this done anywhere? And if we can, what about the others? Those types of deals have happened now and again in the industry, and they are almost always dismal failures. CGM products are medical devices while Afrezza is a drug which means two different sets of regulatory requirements, sales force training, and production economics. Generally speaking, when you mix a pharmaceutical product in the same sales bag with a device you get the worst of both worlds rather than the best. If you really want to nit pit, Dexcom is not even a traditional medical device but rather a diagnostic which again is a whole different animal. The other issue for Dexcom is that Afrezza is a tiny part of the insulin market. MNKD does less than 1,000 scripts a week while the two best selling analogs do more than 250,000 per week. If Dexcom is going to play favorites and partner with a single product for a co-promotion deal, they are also going to be shutting the door on the other insulin producers. That logic may work if the partner is Lilly or Novo, but the numbers are not going to work out very well if the partner is MNKD. The reality is that in 99% of the cases device companies and pharma companies should have precious little to do with each other. The value in almost any partnership accrues mainly to the partner that controls access to the therapeutic rather than the diagnostic. Dexcom has little incentive to handcuff itself to any drug company because in that scenario they are going to wind up with the short end of the stick. If Dexcom wants to maximize its own value they are better selling themselves to another medical device company for whatever price they can get. Any of the broad line device or diagnostic companies would be decent fit (Medtronic, GE Healthcare, Philips, Siemens, or Roche Diagnostics immediately come to mind on less than one cup of coffee). Roche, in particular, has a lot of small diagnostic devices for use in point-of-care environments, and Philips has very strong access to consumer marketing channels. |
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Post by uvula on Oct 2, 2020 7:22:02 GMT -5
If dexcom shows the world that afrezza improves outcomes, there is nothing to stop people from using afrezza with the Libre. If dexcom was not interested in doing this previously, why would they suddenly want to do it now? It would do nothing to differentiate dexcom from libre.
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Post by mymann on Oct 2, 2020 7:48:58 GMT -5
Voice of reason, not fantasy.
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Post by shawnonafrezza on Oct 2, 2020 9:40:54 GMT -5
No.
1) Libre 2 isn't even rolled out everwhere so no idea for Libre 3. It took 2 years after CE to get FDA.
2) G6 has a MARD of 9%, L3 has 9.2%. Small but DXCM has come out saying the G7 will be even better.
3) G7 will be out quite soon. Same profile and will be cheaper than the G6 since the transmitter is built in.
4) DXCM already integrates with by the X2, Omnipod 5, and InPen.
5) The CE mark is for Europe. DXCM never had a strong old there anyways nor is Afrezza sold there.
6) Of the CGM market (polling users) Dexcom has 70% of it, Abbot has 6%.
MNKD would have to approach DXCM with a compelling reason, I see no reason for DXCM to approach MNKD.
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Post by sayhey24 on Oct 2, 2020 10:04:30 GMT -5
Shawn - are you saying insurance companies are willing to pay 5x more for the G7 because it will have a MARD of 9% vs 9.2%?
I am not so sure about that. Is it going to take a few years to get to the U.S. - sure.
Five years ago we were talking about the Libre on this board before most ever heard about it. It seems like yesterday to me.
The Libre 3 will be here before we blink. I am just hoping Tim Cook releases his non-invasive glucose watch - sooner than later.
I am sure Kevin Sayers has been thinking about all this. The Verily sight shows a CGM about the size of the Libre 3. It also says
"The miniaturized CGM patch is designed to enable continuous subcutaneous monitoring of the interstitial fluid that may be less burdensome for those required to measure their glucose levels. The CGM patch will have wireless connectivity for secure data sharing and easy tracking of continuous glucose levels"
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