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Post by sayhey24 on Nov 8, 2022 19:03:54 GMT -5
For those complaining that V-Go is a failure (you know who you are), you need only consider that we spent 14MM to acquire it together with millions in inventory. We spent more than $2 billion on Afrezza to date but V-Go generated half as much as Afrezza did in Q3 2022. Do the math then you can talk... Weird bar to set, "oh yeah, but it's still better than our other product that has lost billions!" Oh yes that would be me for one. Mike made me smile today, maybe I am living rent free somewhere. V-Go was a total waste of money and FOCUS. The loss of FOCUS is huge. You either believe in the potential of afrezza or you don't. Mike says he does but then buys V-Go. I know buying your first company is exciting but its OK to walk away from the table at the very last minute before the handshake. Too bad, so sad I changed my mind. Why Kendall brought him this deal really makes me question Kendall. The problem afrezza has is Mike does not know how to sell it into a community where he is an outsider. Al Mann invested $1B of his own money for a reason. I would be shocked if afrezza was not selling $Bs at this point if Al Mann did not get sick. However, it is what it is. That $15M could have been used so much better on an afrezza/mounjaro study. Now what we have is Mike saying this today "So I think as we go into the end of this year going into '23, we're just starting to talk about how do we best maximize that impact, how do we best support the sales force so they can maximize their effect. And I think we'll see always a dedicated V-Go sales force because these are the top accounts, top reps, top experienced at V-Go. And I think the question is on the Afrezza side, when and how do we integrate, what does that look like? And do we have overlapping accounts or separate accounts? All that work is just starting. So I wouldn't give you much guidance until we probably get to the next quarter." This is pretty black and white. V-Go and afrezza are at odds. Your sales rep either believes in the current ADA treat to fail protocol or they believe in afrezza and the stop the progression so you don't fail protocol. These are very different approaches. The first accepts failure and plans for it. With the afrezza approach we know we can do so much better and maybe stop the progression so the patient doesn't fail. |
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Post by brentie on Nov 8, 2022 19:05:19 GMT -5
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Post by sportsrancho on Nov 8, 2022 19:11:17 GMT -5
Weird bar to set, "oh yeah, but it's still better than our other product that has lost billions!" Oh yes that would be me for one. Mike made me smile today, maybe I am living rent free somewhere. V-Go was a total waste of money and FOCUS. The loss of FOCUS is huge. You either believe in the potential of afrezza or you don't. Mike says he does but then buys V-Go. I know buying your first company is exciting but its OK to walk away from the table at the very last minute before the handshake. Too bad, so sad I changed my mind. Why Kendall brought him this deal really makes me question Kendall. The problem afrezza has is Mike does not know how to sell it into a community where he is an outsider. Al Mann invested $1B of his own money for a reason. I would be shocked if afrezza was not selling $Bs at this point if Al Mann did not get sick. However, it is what it is. That $15M could have been used so much better on an afrezza/mounjaro study. Now what we have is Mike saying this today "So I think as we go into the end of this year going into '23, we're just starting to talk about how do we best maximize that impact, how do we best support the sales force so they can maximize their effect. And I think we'll see always a dedicated V-Go sales force because these are the top accounts, top reps, top experienced at V-Go. And I think the question is on the Afrezza side, when and how do we integrate, what does that look like? And do we have overlapping accounts or separate accounts? All that work is just starting. So I wouldn't give you much guidance until we probably get to the next quarter." This is pretty black and white. V-Go and afrezza are at odds. Your sales rep either believes in the current ADA treat to fail protocol or they believe in afrezza and the stop the progression so you don't fail protocol. These are very different approaches. The first accepts failure and plans for it. With the afrezza approach we know we can do so much better and maybe stop the progression so the patient doesn't fail. This is very true, but his he actually looking at it that deeply… I doubt it. |
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Post by letitride on Nov 8, 2022 20:24:52 GMT -5
MC said the T2 market was too saturated at the moment and that the company's focus on T1 combined with pedo approval will help entry into the T2 market. IMO, this was an excellent call leading to high expectations for the next report. That said, the typical end of year tax sell-off may come first. Its November if this is the sell off were looking really good. |
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Post by cretin11 on Nov 8, 2022 22:57:05 GMT -5
Weird bar to set, "oh yeah, but it's still better than our other product that has lost billions!" V-Go was a total waste of money and FOCUS. The loss of FOCUS is huge. You either believe in the potential of afrezza or you don't. Mike says he does but then buys V-Go. I know buying your first company is exciting but its OK to walk away from the table at the very last minute before the handshake. Why Kendall brought him this deal really makes me question Kendall. In Kendall’s defense, his only loyalty at the time was to his employer, Zealand. Judging by the market’s reaction (ZEAL share price) upon the deal, Kendall performed well for his employer. |
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Post by phdedieu12 on Nov 8, 2022 23:48:23 GMT -5
Kendall had nothing to do with the purchase
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Post by oldfishtowner on Nov 9, 2022 0:24:02 GMT -5
Yes - the slide did show URAA which is why I raised the question. It may not seem like a big deal but its a huge deal calling afrezza an analog and Mike can not let them put it in an analog class. There is an entire sales strategy which can be developed around how it is not an analog. Here is what they posted - they pulled the slide which had URAA investors.mannkindcorp.com/static-files/92d4a5eb-72b6-4527-9951-6e613d4edac8 Par for the course, since Castagna has already demonstrated over and over again that marketing is not one of his strong points.
As for any kind of strategic vision, your other comments today speak volumes.
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Post by prcgorman2 on Nov 9, 2022 2:43:46 GMT -5
I agree Afrezza is in a class by it's own, but comparisons against similar things in an industry is valid. The chart wording could have been better. Mike probably didn't write it.
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Post by phdedieu12 on Nov 9, 2022 8:37:45 GMT -5
Yes - the slide did show URAA which is why I raised the question. It may not seem like a big deal but its a huge deal calling afrezza an analog and Mike can not let them put it in an analog class. There is an entire sales strategy which can be developed around how it is not an analog. Here is what they posted - they pulled the slide which had URAA investors.mannkindcorp.com/static-files/92d4a5eb-72b6-4527-9951-6e613d4edac8 Par for the course, since Castagna has already demonstrated over and over again that marketing is not one of his strong points.
As for any kind of strategic vision, your other comments today speak volumes.
What would you do? Honestly, other than saying Castagna bad, what would you do? What is your strategic vision? How would you market Afrezza? |
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Post by cretin11 on Nov 9, 2022 8:58:19 GMT -5
Kendall had nothing to do with the purchase That’s interesting, if true. How do you know Kendall had nothing to do with the purchase? I’ve seen him referenced here by several posters in regards to the purchase, but maybe our posters were making assumptions while his presence at ZEAL was merely coincidence? I’ve seen no articles connecting Kendall to the transaction. |
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Post by phdedieu12 on Nov 9, 2022 9:21:22 GMT -5
Kendall had nothing to do with the purchase That’s interesting, if true. How do you know Kendall had nothing to do with the purchase? I’ve seen him referenced here by several posters in regards to the purchase, but maybe our posters were making assumptions while his presence at ZEAL was merely coincidence? I’ve seen no articles connecting Kendall to the transaction. Indeed, a lot is being "referenced" by posters, I'd even suggest posters are rarely doing more than guessing or feeding the water cooler conversation with conjecture. Kendall goes to Zealand, Mannkind ends up buying V-Go, so there must be some connection. I happen to KNOW there wasn't. The reality is simply that Kendall is an authority in the diabetes world and went to work for another pharma company in the same field, a European company struggling to make that product profitable and ended up unloading an asset, that's it. |
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Post by uvula on Nov 9, 2022 10:43:04 GMT -5
That’s interesting, if true. How do you know Kendall had nothing to do with the purchase? I’ve seen him referenced here by several posters in regards to the purchase, but maybe our posters were making assumptions while his presence at ZEAL was merely coincidence? I’ve seen no articles connecting Kendall to the transaction. Indeed, a lot is being "referenced" by posters, I'd even suggest posters are rarely doing more than guessing or feeding the water cooler conversation with conjecture. Kendall goes to Zealand, Mannkind ends up buying V-Go, so there must be some connection. I happen to KNOW there wasn't. The reality is simply that Kendall is an authority in the diabetes world and went to work for another pharma company in the same field, a European company struggling to make that product profitable and ended up unloading an asset, that's it. Speculation is expected on internet message boards, and is completely acceptable. It is not acceptable to claim you KNOW something that has not been released to the public unless you have confidential inside information. Do you? |
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Post by awesomo on Nov 9, 2022 10:44:46 GMT -5
That’s interesting, if true. How do you know Kendall had nothing to do with the purchase? I’ve seen him referenced here by several posters in regards to the purchase, but maybe our posters were making assumptions while his presence at ZEAL was merely coincidence? I’ve seen no articles connecting Kendall to the transaction. Indeed, a lot is being "referenced" by posters, I'd even suggest posters are rarely doing more than guessing or feeding the water cooler conversation with conjecture. Kendall goes to Zealand, Mannkind ends up buying V-Go, so there must be some connection. I happen to KNOW there wasn't. The reality is simply that Kendall is an authority in the diabetes world and went to work for another pharma company in the same field, a European company struggling to make that product profitable and ended up unloading an asset, that's it. Unless you are David Kendall or Mike, you don’t know anything. |
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Post by hellodolly on Nov 9, 2022 12:41:48 GMT -5
As Cramer once said, "You have no idea! None!"
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Post by sayhey24 on Nov 9, 2022 13:20:56 GMT -5
That’s interesting, if true. How do you know Kendall had nothing to do with the purchase? I’ve seen him referenced here by several posters in regards to the purchase, but maybe our posters were making assumptions while his presence at ZEAL was merely coincidence? I’ve seen no articles connecting Kendall to the transaction. Indeed, a lot is being "referenced" by posters, I'd even suggest posters are rarely doing more than guessing or feeding the water cooler conversation with conjecture. Kendall goes to Zealand, Mannkind ends up buying V-Go, so there must be some connection. I happen to KNOW there wasn't. The reality is simply that Kendall is an authority in the diabetes world and went to work for another pharma company in the same field, a European company struggling to make that product profitable and ended up unloading an asset, that's it. I find it interesting also. I don't know Kendall. I do know he has a great resume and when he showed up I for one thought we finally have someone who understands the community. He then said this would be the easiest job he ever had and that he has uncovered Al's lost studies which he called "nuggets of gold". He also said the issue with afrezza and T2s was it was not part of the ADA's Standard of Care. So far I am loving it. Then he does the small study, has some great results and gets a minor afrezza mention for T1 SoC. Then BOOM, he is gone. OK Phd what happened? Not that his departure is connected but this was at the same time Mounjaro was coming into the home stretch of trials. This was also at the same time Lilly was clearing the way for the Mounjaro launch. Then Kendall shows up as a consultant at the V-Go company which MNKD then buys and Phd you say Kendall had NO part of this. OK, I have no reason to doubt you but assuming this is true this is even more concerning. Are you telling us Mike gets hooked up with this company out of the blue and never picks up the phone to say "Dave, what do you think about V-Go? Is it a good fit with afrezza?" |
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