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Post by sportsrancho on Jan 13, 2024 21:52:44 GMT -5
From Bill:
“The idea of convincing insurers to cover Afrezza through the use of thought leaders has two flaws: 1) insurers are convinced by data not opinion and 2) the thought leaders are corrupted by pay from Big Pharma. So, I don’t think there’s much sense in a conventional approach. MNKD doesn’t have the money. I still believe as I did from very early on in the process that an “under the radar” strategy of growing usage (through someone like VDex and other believers) to the point that you have enough users to get industry attention. 25k or 50k users would be hard to deny. MNKD could work with the believers to gather data too. If this had been followed we would have more than enough data and users by now at far less expense. I believe Afrezza would be SOC by now.”
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Post by hopingandwilling on Jan 13, 2024 22:21:36 GMT -5
HELLO,
Thanks for being such a generous person by taking in fishing parlance, "you have taken the bait", as now I have you hooked with your clear examples that you in your mind MUST live in a fantasy land. If you will give me a couple of days (we have potentially sub-zero degrees on our way, and I'm preparing for this onslaught, but will be wintering my home for the next two days, but then I will have full time to devote to giving you an education lesson for free! And just know I'm going to give you clear and verifiable examples of public documentation for your simple conjecturing examples as for what you want from me. Thanks again for your generosity!
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Post by cjm18 on Jan 13, 2024 22:34:44 GMT -5
From Bill: “The idea of convincing insurers to cover Afrezza through the use of thought leaders has two flaws: 1) insurers are convinced by data not opinion and 2) the thought leaders are corrupted by pay from Big Pharma. So, I don’t think there’s much sense in a conventional approach. MNKD doesn’t have the money. I still believe as I did from very early on in the process that an “under the radar” strategy of growing usage (through someone like VDex and other believers) to the point that you have enough users to get industry attention. 25k or 50k users would be hard to deny. MNKD could work with the believers to gather data too. If this had been followed we would have more than enough data and users by now at far less expense. I believe Afrezza would be SOC by now.” Lol. |
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Post by sportsrancho on Jan 13, 2024 22:40:11 GMT -5
From Bill: “The idea of convincing insurers to cover Afrezza through the use of thought leaders has two flaws: 1) insurers are convinced by data not opinion and 2) the thought leaders are corrupted by pay from Big Pharma. So, I don’t think there’s much sense in a conventional approach. MNKD doesn’t have the money. I still believe as I did from very early on in the process that an “under the radar” strategy of growing usage (through someone like VDex and other believers) to the point that you have enough users to get industry attention. 25k or 50k users would be hard to deny. MNKD could work with the believers to gather data too. If this had been followed we would have more than enough data and users by now at far less expense. I believe Afrezza would be SOC by now.” “ I’ve said that for so long and it was dismissed but I’ve become even more convinced through experiences at Vdex. When patients get properly titrated and follow our protocols they get results that simply are not possible with any other drug. Patients think it’s miraculous and in a sense it is. They never believed it was possible to have normal blood glucose levels until they experience it through Afrezza. Total game-changer. Hooks them like nothing else can. Only impediment is cost. If insurance doesn’t cover most won’t stay on.” |
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Post by lennymnkd on Jan 14, 2024 6:28:44 GMT -5
Sports how does Vedex get people in the door?
Any television advertising/😀if they still call it that these days ,Print advertising.. referrals .
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Post by hellodolly on Jan 14, 2024 8:40:00 GMT -5
HELLO, Thanks for being such a generous person by taking in fishing parlance, "you have taken the bait", as now I have you hooked with your clear examples that you in your mind MUST live in a fantasy land. If you will give me a couple of days (we have potentially sub-zero degrees on our way, and I'm preparing for this onslaught, but will be wintering my home for the next two days, but then I will have full time to devote to giving you an education lesson for free! And just know I'm going to give you clear and verifiable examples of public documentation for your simple conjecturing examples as for what you want from me. Thanks again for your generosity! Those are Mike's examples from his discussion at JPM and the slides from the MNKD JPM presentation, as well as online sources and not as much conjecture as you believe. I look forward to the discussion. One request, please don't ramble. Stay on one topic, make your point and move on to the next. My line is set and hook baited. |
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Post by sayhey24 on Jan 14, 2024 8:49:26 GMT -5
From Bill: “The idea of convincing insurers to cover Afrezza through the use of thought leaders has two flaws: 1) insurers are convinced by data not opinion and 2) the thought leaders are corrupted by pay from Big Pharma. So, I don’t think there’s much sense in a conventional approach. MNKD doesn’t have the money. I still believe as I did from very early on in the process that an “under the radar” strategy of growing usage (through someone like VDex and other believers) to the point that you have enough users to get industry attention. 25k or 50k users would be hard to deny. MNKD could work with the believers to gather data too. If this had been followed we would have more than enough data and users by now at far less expense. I believe Afrezza would be SOC by now.” Bill is correct. We need 50k scripts a week but 100k would be better. We know after 9 years what we have been doing is not working. Afrezza has limited insurance coverage and is too damn much. Its not getting the 10k let alone 25k doing what we have been doing. We don't want to convince insurers. We need to offer afrezza at a price that PWDs will readily pay out of pocket. Ask Bill what he thinks that price is. Insurers are as corrupt as Mike's "thought leaders", probably worse. They are driven by profit and BP. Tell Bill I recently lost a bet to a guy who heads up one of these BPs and he told me insurers were going to squeeze afrezza. Right now MNKD has $300M. I say they have the money for a 2 year campaign. For the first time they have the opportunity to self insure afrezza and provide at a price to get the 50k or even 100k weekly scripts. They also have the opportunity to work with the VDex's and try and get grant money the cover the afrezza out of pocket cost be it $35 or $99 or something else. In the past afrezza was part of the Senior Savings Model for CMS at $35 and through Sterling for $99. Now its not clear to me how Sterling is working and SSM is gone. As far as "Thought Leaders" mine are not the same as Mikes. They are the group which goes on TV talk shows and news shows. They are actors with medical degrees which we pay to promote afrezza. Some are the ones pushing Ozempic right now on TV. We need to get earned advertising and pay these people and have them tell the world how great afrezza is. If Mike did the afrezza/Glp1 study they could also talk about how well it works with Ozempic but I don't see Mike doing that study. The SoC is controlled by BP and is not changing "much" until BP says its OK or MNKD takes BP on. It does not matter what the studies show. Inhaled insulin will just be put in parentheses until the blockade is broken. The Cipla trial did not make Mike's slide which is very concerning. I have no idea why. The kids trial will show great results but if the moms are expecting insurers to pay they are going to struggle. The kids trial results will poke the bear. Not as much as Cipla but Medtronic will not be happy. If the afrezza price has not ben resolved before the kids results are released then BP has MNKD right where they want them - marginalized and "inhaled insulin" for the kids in the SoC will be in parentheses. |
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Post by sportsrancho on Jan 14, 2024 9:06:36 GMT -5
Sports how does Vedex get people in the door? Any television advertising/😀if they still call it that these days ,Print advertising.. referrals . I’ll tell you what I do which is minimal compared to what they do before opening in the town we are going in to. I post in New Mexico business groups on Facebook and different diabetic groups. Future patients then private message me and I answer questions and help them get a hold of one of our practitioners. There’s a lot of groundwork being done in Clovis right now, radio advertisements, blood drives, etc. Talking to key people. ( Blue Cross Blue Shield.) * Mike Winters Live Radio Talk Show in Chaves County. Bill to appear on show. * University of New Mexico School of Medicine: Establishment of Clinical Studies Program for Physicians Assistants I can expand on this more later. Roswell was such a success, people were coming from over an hour away, so we’re keeping the clinics closer to each other and before we open we make sure we’re booked up. We’re getting referrals from hospitals. Nursing schools, etc.. We strive to hire the best practitioners. And then an immense amount of work goes into the training of the staff, not only on how to prescribe and dose Afrezza, but on quality of care. They have to have heart/empathy.. So it’s Bill and others with boots on the ground in New Mexico!! Getting to know the community, and being a part of it. We’re not doing digital ads or television at this point in time. But we are doing a new webpage. No idea when that’s going to be up:-) |
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Post by lennymnkd on Jan 14, 2024 9:35:11 GMT -5
Can’t ask for a better explanation than that!
Thank you
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Post by sayhey24 on Jan 14, 2024 15:09:15 GMT -5
Sports how does Vedex get people in the door? Any television advertising/😀if they still call it that these days ,Print advertising.. referrals . I’ll tell you what I do which is minimal compared to what they do before opening in the town we are going in to. I post in New Mexico business groups on Facebook and different diabetic groups. Future patients then private message me and I answer questions and help them get a hold of one of our practitioners. There’s a lot of groundwork being done in Clovis right now, radio advertisements, blood drives, etc. Talking to key people. ( Blue Cross Blue Shield.) * Mike Winters Live Radio Talk Show in Chaves County. Bill to appear on show. * University of New Mexico School of Medicine: Establishment of Clinical Studies Program for Physicians Assistants I can expand on this more later. Roswell was such a success, people were coming from over an hour away, so we’re keeping the clinics closer to each other and before we open we make sure we’re booked up. We’re getting referrals from hospitals. Nursing schools, etc.. We strive to hire the best practitioners. And then an immense amount of work goes into the training of the staff, not only on how to prescribe and dose Afrezza, but on quality of care. They have to have heart/empathy.. So it’s Bill and others with boots on the ground in New Mexico!! Getting to know the community, and being a part of it. We’re not doing digital ads or television at this point in time. But we are doing a new webpage. No idea when that’s going to be up:-) How are the patients paying for afrezza? How much are they paying? How is the insurance coverage? You mention - Talking to key people. ( Blue Cross Blue Shield.) About what percent are on Medicare? |
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Post by sportsrancho on Jan 14, 2024 17:32:31 GMT -5
I’ll get back to you ,I don’t have that data, but insurance coverage is not good …and co-pays are high. Often every year you have to start over with the appeal. If we can’t get them on Afrezza, we get them on the next best thing personally for them.
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Post by sayhey24 on Jan 14, 2024 18:16:48 GMT -5
I’ll get back to you ,I don’t have that data, but insurance coverage is not good …and co-pays are high. Often every year you have to start over with the appeal. If we can’t get them on Afrezza, we get them on the next best thing personally for them. OK, thanks. Thats what I expected. How about if you could buy direct from MNKD at 15% over cost? Would that help? Rumor has it thats the deal costplusdrugs offered. I don't know what cost is. Lets say about $40 a box. It would be nice to keep them off the best thing and not have to worry about the next best things. Better yet not to have to mess around and have the hassle with insurance companies. How about grants? Have these centers worked with non-profits to apply for grants to pay the co-pay? |
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Post by agedhippie on Jan 14, 2024 19:58:57 GMT -5
OK, thanks. Thats what I expected. How about if you could buy direct from MNKD at 15% over cost? Would that help? Rumor has it thats the deal costplusdrugs offered. I don't know what cost is. Lets say about $40 a box. ... How about grants? Have these centers worked with non-profits to apply for grants to pay the co-pay? Well, since we know that the the profit margin on Afrezza runs around 53 to 57% lets call it 60% for simplicity. Looking at 2022 for simplicity since they broke out Afrezza there, combine that with the TRx numbers from the JPM conference presentation, and we have a cost per prescription of just over $1,900. With a profit margin of 60% that means that each prescription costs MNKD $760. I don't think your numbers work. Non-profits are not working to subsidize drug companies. The pattern for that is well established and followed by every other drug company - they eat the costs. |
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Post by sayhey24 on Jan 15, 2024 8:01:32 GMT -5
OK, thanks. Thats what I expected. How about if you could buy direct from MNKD at 15% over cost? Would that help? Rumor has it thats the deal costplusdrugs offered. I don't know what cost is. Lets say about $40 a box. ... How about grants? Have these centers worked with non-profits to apply for grants to pay the co-pay? Well, since we know that the the profit margin on Afrezza runs around 53 to 57% lets call it 60% for simplicity. Looking at 2022 for simplicity since they broke out Afrezza there, combine that with the TRx numbers from the JPM conference presentation, and we have a cost per prescription of just over $1,900. With a profit margin of 60% that means that each prescription costs MNKD $760. I don't think your numbers work. Non-profits are not working to subsidize drug companies. The pattern for that is well established and followed by every other drug company - they eat the costs. Wow - I did not realize those little cartridges we put the insulin in are made of gold. And whats driving the $760; the plastic inhaler; plastic cartridge; insulin cost; FDKP cost; rent on the factory Tyvaso DPI is paying for; something else? I am sure Bill has at one time or another asked Mike to sell direct. I would also not be surprised if Mike said he can't. However, now we have LillyDirect and Zepbound. VDex is also working with the New Mexico medical school which probably has a pharmacy. I doubt real cost to MNKD is $760 yet they joined the SSM and offered to provide for $35. As far as the non-profits having run several I see no reason as an educational diabetes program, afrezza could not be provided as part of the program. It seems just fine when the ADA does whatever they are doing through "Project Power" - which started as a true non-profit out of some Philadelphia churches. diabetes.org/project-power |
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Post by sportsrancho on Jan 15, 2024 8:52:23 GMT -5
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