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Post by agedhippie on Mar 10, 2017 12:04:09 GMT -5
I wonder about that too..... I would find a new endo.... if someone really wants to try Afrezza they will... I'm curious but apathetic - not a creditworthy position I know.  |
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Post by dreamboatcruise on Mar 10, 2017 12:25:44 GMT -5
I think that's a fair question . No it doesn't affect me like that. I have been the same weight +/- a couple of pounds forever (normal BMI) and lethargy isn't an issue beyond my usual procrastination  I am quite prepared to believe that it does affect some people like that though. I probably know one person who may have those issues, but you don't really like to ask... The rest all seem to be unaffected as far as I can see. The usual provisos apply - if you eat junk and don't exercise you may be lethargic and gain weight just like non-diabetics. The issue with diabetes and treatment is that it is absolutely not one size fits all, and that is something the medical world really struggles with. They have this idea that if it produces a specific result in a person that it will produce that same result in everyone - it doesn't work that way. Diabetes is a broken glucose metabolism, and like an iceberg the glucose levels are the bit sticking above the water but there is still all the rest. Diabetics are by no means immune from this error either and can become quite evangelistic about treatments which is why diabetics tend to tune out advice on things like social media (because if it works for you why wouldn't you want to spread the message and help everyone else?) That seems unlikely. I'd need to see that happen to believe it  |
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Post by peppy on Mar 10, 2017 12:29:07 GMT -5
I wonder about that too..... I would find a new endo.... if someone really wants to try Afrezza they will... I'm curious but apathetic - not a creditworthy position I know. lethargy, a lack of energy and enthusiasm. apathy, lack of interest, enthusiasm, or concern.
Every type one I have known has been rail thin. Like Laura. Mary Tyler Moore. I even looked to see if Audrey Hepburn was diabetic, so thin. Audrey was world war two starved. When Eric introduced a bigger type one lady to afrezza,(On you tube) it just didn't look right. My minds eye seeing things wrong.
Added: Medicine doesn't care about lethargy/apathy. If problematic, added, SSRI's More pharm prescriptions! Yay. That worked.
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Post by peppy on Mar 10, 2017 13:00:10 GMT -5
From Brentie, I'm not sure if they ever gave us a date. Here's Matt at the JP Morgan Conference.
"The other big component I think is going to be in the direct-to-consumer area. So we are going to be doing more aggressive consumer advertising, including television, which everybody is surprised, we have a commercial into production even as we speak. It will probably be awhile before we get it to the FDA and on the air. And even then, don’t look for it on your next Super Bowl. It’s going to be more targeted in a few markets and we want to see before we invest really huge amounts of money that it actually has the effect, we expect it will and some target marketing things. So it’s going to be kind of piloted out. We also have a TV series we are sponsoring later in the year. We are still negotiating some of the aspects of that, but we hope we will hopefully more details to announce for essentially reality TV show based on diabetes that we will sponsor and I think Afrezza will be – I hope we will be figuring prominently in that."
Read more: mnkd.proboards.com/thread/2679/symphony-script-data?page=104#ixzz4awmic5E4
Here is the next problem. Let's pretend. Pretend Reversed uses Afrezza along with diet and exercise to reverse type two. pretend enough type twos see the show/hear the word, that some type two's show up at there doctors office looking for Afrezza. We know what they will be told?
This is like planning the escape from Stalag 13
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Post by dreamboatcruise on Mar 10, 2017 13:27:39 GMT -5
peppy... No reason to stop pretending at that point Pretend the doctors love Afrezza and pretend all insurance pays for it. I'm already pretending I'm rich. I'd be happy if there were even a single user of Afrezza on the show. I'm no expert on diabetes, but it does seem that if patients are being converted from bad diets to low-fat healthy ones while at the same time being put on rigorous new exercise regimes... hypos from delayed action of subq could be a problem and Afrezza might be something that a knowledgeable doctor would view as clinically beneficial. In the trailer for the show, they have one scene where a woman feels ill and they call an ambulance. I wonder if that was a hypo, perhaps due to a subq outlasting mealtime digestion. Hard to predict what 1) producers would deem good content and 2) MNKD would feel comfortable with in light of their stated concern about FDA's view of the show.
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Post by sportsrancho on Mar 10, 2017 13:44:15 GMT -5
Peppy...If that happens I believe they will give into demand. They think they know best and won't change anything because someone is pushing a new drug. They have been doing this for years and haven't seen anything yet that blows them away. They have to see results with there own eyes. IMO.
I don't change my clients diets or routines because someone tells me about a protein drink that burns fat or a new diet drug or a beach body work out. I tune it all out. I think after all these years I know what's best. And that's free-weights.
If they ask for a change that's when they get it. Then if they get results I'll put my other clients on it. Maybe, it depends.
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Post by peppy on Mar 10, 2017 14:51:34 GMT -5
Peppy...If that happens I believe they will give into demand. They think they know best and won't change anything because someone is pushing a new drug. They have been doing this for years and haven't seen anything yet that blows them away. They have to see results with there own eyes. IMO. I don't change my clients diets or routines because someone tells me about a protein drink that burns fat or a new diet drug or a beach body work out. I tune it all out. I think after all these years I know what's best. And that's free-weights. If they ask for a change that's when they get it. Then if they get results I'll put my other clients on it. Maybe, it depends. Thank you the information. Some people have to pay for this info. My friend told me for FREE.
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Post by sweedee79 on Mar 10, 2017 15:08:19 GMT -5
I'm curious but apathetic - not a creditworthy position I know. lethargy, a lack of energy and enthusiasm. apathy, lack of interest, enthusiasm, or concern.
Every type one I have known has been rail thin. Like Laura. Mary Tyler Moore. I even looked to see if Audrey Hepburn was diabetic, so thin. Audrey was world war two starved. When Eric introduced a bigger type one lady to afrezza,(On you tube) it just didn't look right. My minds eye seeing things wrong.
Added: Medicine doesn't care about lethargy/apathy. If problematic, added, SSRI's More pharm prescriptions! Yay. That worked.
I think the weight gain does somewhat depend on the type of diabetes and the person... However it is a fact that insulin stores fat and makes it more difficult to lose weight...
www.healthline.com/health/diabetes/tips-for-managing-insulin-weight-gain#Overview1
My dad is type 1.5 ... LADA, and he also has resistance to insulin from being on it for so long ... so he also has double diabetes... another side effect of subq .. which it seems that Afrezza may not have since we have seen some claim that their type 2 diabetes has been reversed while using Afrezza ..
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Post by agedhippie on Mar 10, 2017 17:11:43 GMT -5
lethargy, a lack of energy and enthusiasm. apathy, lack of interest, enthusiasm, or concern.
Every type one I have known has been rail thin. Like Laura. Mary Tyler Moore. I even looked to see if Audrey Hepburn was diabetic, so thin. Audrey was world war two starved. When Eric introduced a bigger type one lady to afrezza,(On you tube) it just didn't look right. My minds eye seeing things wrong.
Added: Medicine doesn't care about lethargy/apathy. If problematic, added, SSRI's More pharm prescriptions! Yay. That worked.
I think the weight gain does somewhat depend on the type of diabetes and the person... However it is a fact that insulin stores fat and makes it more difficult to lose weight...
www.healthline.com/health/diabetes/tips-for-managing-insulin-weight-gain#Overview1
My dad is type 1.5 ... LADA, and he also has resistance to insulin from being on it for so long ... so he also has double diabetes... another side effect of subq .. which it seems that Afrezza may not have since we have seen some claim that their type 2 diabetes has been reversed while using Afrezza ..
There is a problem with overlap. Since Type 1 and Type 2 are different conditions it is quite possible to have them both, or even multiple variants of Type 2 simultaneously. I don't think there is any evidence of insulin causing insulin resistance directly, but weight gain causes insulin resistance so there is an indirect link (insulin -> weight gain -> insulin resistance). Also weight gain is not inevitable with insulin, but it is common dependent on genes or diet. For example my weight has hardly changed over the years yet I know others where despite eating well their weight has increased. The work showing Type 2 is put into remission (I don't like reversed, there is an implication of cured, but that's just me being pedantic) with insulin has been done with injected insulin rather than Afrezza. The key is insulin to rest the beta cells rather than how it is delivered. |
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Post by peppy on Mar 12, 2017 8:50:10 GMT -5
I think the weight gain does somewhat depend on the type of diabetes and the person... However it is a fact that insulin stores fat and makes it more difficult to lose weight...
www.healthline.com/health/diabetes/tips-for-managing-insulin-weight-gain#Overview1
My dad is type 1.5 ... LADA, and he also has resistance to insulin from being on it for so long ... so he also has double diabetes... another side effect of subq .. which it seems that Afrezza may not have since we have seen some claim that their type 2 diabetes has been reversed while using Afrezza ..
There is a problem with overlap. Since Type 1 and Type 2 are different conditions it is quite possible to have them both, or even multiple variants of Type 2 simultaneously. I don't think there is any evidence of insulin causing insulin resistance directly, but weight gain causes insulin resistance so there is an indirect link (insulin -> weight gain -> insulin resistance). Also weight gain is not inevitable with insulin, but it is common dependent on genes or diet. For example my weight has hardly changed over the years yet I know others where despite eating well their weight has increased. The work showing Type 2 is put into remission (I don't like reversed, there is an implication of cured, but that's just me being pedantic) with insulin has been done with injected insulin rather than Afrezza. The key is insulin to rest the beta cells rather than how it is delivered. Aged, did you just say physicians know type two can be put in remission with insulin? and yet these are the guidelines? www.screencast.com/t/nOwBa4aaA So aged, if physicians know type two can be put in remission with insulin therapy, why is it not used?
I think I know the answer, is subq insulin for a new type two considered to Dangerous?
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Post by agedhippie on Mar 12, 2017 10:08:47 GMT -5
There is a problem with overlap. Since Type 1 and Type 2 are different conditions it is quite possible to have them both, or even multiple variants of Type 2 simultaneously. I don't think there is any evidence of insulin causing insulin resistance directly, but weight gain causes insulin resistance so there is an indirect link (insulin -> weight gain -> insulin resistance). Also weight gain is not inevitable with insulin, but it is common dependent on genes or diet. For example my weight has hardly changed over the years yet I know others where despite eating well their weight has increased. The work showing Type 2 is put into remission (I don't like reversed, there is an implication of cured, but that's just me being pedantic) with insulin has been done with injected insulin rather than Afrezza. The key is insulin to rest the beta cells rather than how it is delivered. Aged, did you just say physicians know type two can be put in remission with insulin? and yet these are the guidelines? www.screencast.com/t/nOwBa4aaA So aged, if physicians know type two can be put in remission with insulin therapy, why is it not used?
I think I know the answer, is subq insulin for a new type two considered to Dangerous?
You got it in one - it's considered dangerous. I have argued for this for a while but endos are not keen. The intuitive example would be when you start to treat a Type 1 with insulin - the diabetes backs off considerably, sometimes to the extent that you don't need insulin at all, as you go into what is known as the honeymoon period. Like all honeymoons it ends but that it anywhere from a couple of weeks to a year later. The principle is the same as the Type 2 work, relieve the stress on the beta cells which allows them to go back to work. Endos see this every day so I don't understand why they cannot translate it into Type 2. Now insulin is dangerous but it's a trade off. Given the compliance rates amongst Type 2 diabetics (horrible) then any treatment which allows you to replace an ongoing regime with a 6 weeks per year regime is bound to improve outcomes I would have thought. I would love a long term study on this but I cannot see anyone doing it any time soon. Oh, and if they went down this route they would no longer be able to use insulin as a threat (which they do today) to make people take their diabetes seriously. |
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Post by mango on Mar 12, 2017 10:21:26 GMT -5
There is a problem with overlap. Since Type 1 and Type 2 are different conditions it is quite possible to have them both, or even multiple variants of Type 2 simultaneously. I don't think there is any evidence of insulin causing insulin resistance directly, but weight gain causes insulin resistance so there is an indirect link (insulin -> weight gain -> insulin resistance). Also weight gain is not inevitable with insulin, but it is common dependent on genes or diet. For example my weight has hardly changed over the years yet I know others where despite eating well their weight has increased. The work showing Type 2 is put into remission (I don't like reversed, there is an implication of cured, but that's just me being pedantic) with insulin has been done with injected insulin rather than Afrezza. The key is insulin to rest the beta cells rather than how it is delivered. Aged, did you just say physicians know type two can be put in remission with insulin? and yet these are the guidelines? www.screencast.com/t/nOwBa4aaA So aged, if physicians know type two can be put in remission with insulin therapy, why is it not used?
I think I know the answer, is subq insulin for a new type two considered to Dangerous?
• And yet these are the guidelines?—Chronic Metformin use causes neurodegenerative disease and disorder via an exhaustive list of negative side effects within the brain. To name a few of them, Metformin: 1) induces accumulation of Aβ aggregates 2) causes mitochondrial dysfunction 3) causes oxidative stress 4) increases amyloid precursor protein which causes aggregation of beta-amyloid. This is of extreme importance because amyloid precursor proteins is the main component in amyloid plaques found in the brains of Alzheimer's Disease patients. Funny how the most over-prescribed drug, Metformin, causes specific formations related to Alzheimer's, yet, doctors thick this is a safe medication. It simply is not. I wonder what could be contributing to the prevalence of T2D patients developing Alzheimer's when they were on chronic Metformin use? Well, that is easy to answer, but maybe, just maybe, it is the very drug Metformin since it promotes amyloid precursor proteins in the brain to form amyloid plaques. Just a guess since it is scientifically proven in many publications. Maybe that is it. Just maybe. • I think I know the answer, is subq insulin for a new type two considered to Dangerous?And where are all these studies showing man made injectable insulin puts T2D into remission? The reason it is dangerous is because injectable insulin is amyloidogenic. Simple enough. Afrezza is not amyloidogenic, also simple enough. I do have several studies proving cannabis, including the cannabinoids CBD and THC can actually not only prevent and reverse diabetes, but chronic use can prevent Alzheimer's, albeit in mice but the system will not allow such a natural thing to be better than their man made disease-induced drugs. |
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Post by sayhey24 on Mar 12, 2017 10:24:11 GMT -5
Aged, did you just say physicians know type two can be put in remission with insulin? and yet these are the guidelines? www.screencast.com/t/nOwBa4aaA So aged, if physicians know type two can be put in remission with insulin therapy, why is it not used?
I think I know the answer, is subq insulin for a new type two considered to Dangerous?
You got it in one - it's considered dangerous. I have argued for this for a while but endos are not keen. The intuitive example would be when you start to treat a Type 1 with insulin - the diabetes backs off considerably, sometimes to the extent that you don't need insulin at all, as you go into what is known as the honeymoon period. Like all honeymoons it ends but that it anywhere from a couple of weeks to a year later. The principle is the same as the Type 2 work, relieve the stress on the beta cells which allows them to go back to work. Endos see this every day so I don't understand why they cannot translate it into Type 2. Now insulin is dangerous but it's a trade off. Given the compliance rates amongst Type 2 diabetics (horrible) then any treatment which allows you to replace an ongoing regime with a 6 weeks per year regime is bound to improve outcomes I would have thought. I would love a long term study on this but I cannot see anyone doing it any time soon. Oh, and if they went down this route they would no longer be able to use insulin as a threat (which they do today) to make people take their diabetes seriously. Insulin is not dangerous when working properly with the liver. The problem is the Analogs are not insulin, they are analogs and do not work like the pancreas which the liver expects. They are too damn slow and hand around too damn long. Could you imagine if there was an insulin which worked like naturally released insulin and the liver worked to prevent the lows. I think that would be a game changer in the thinking toward early insulin intervention. |
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Post by agedhippie on Mar 12, 2017 10:27:45 GMT -5
You got it in one - it's considered dangerous. I have argued for this for a while but endos are not keen. The intuitive example would be when you start to treat a Type 1 with insulin - the diabetes backs off considerably, sometimes to the extent that you don't need insulin at all, as you go into what is known as the honeymoon period. Like all honeymoons it ends but that it anywhere from a couple of weeks to a year later. The principle is the same as the Type 2 work, relieve the stress on the beta cells which allows them to go back to work. Endos see this every day so I don't understand why they cannot translate it into Type 2. Now insulin is dangerous but it's a trade off. Given the compliance rates amongst Type 2 diabetics (horrible) then any treatment which allows you to replace an ongoing regime with a 6 weeks per year regime is bound to improve outcomes I would have thought. I would love a long term study on this but I cannot see anyone doing it any time soon. Oh, and if they went down this route they would no longer be able to use insulin as a threat (which they do today) to make people take their diabetes seriously. Insulin is not dangerous when working properly with the liver. The problem is the Analogs are not insulin, they are analogs and do not work like the pancreas which the liver expects. They are too damn slow and hand around too damn long. Could you imagine if there was an insulin which worked like naturally released insulin and the liver worked to prevent the lows. I think that would be a game changer in the thinking toward early insulin intervention. Obviously you have never taken any of the pre-analog insulins. I would take analogs in a heartbeat over Regular / NPH / Lente (spit) <- that's Lente's official title. They were just horrible. It's the route, not the insulin. |
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Post by agedhippie on Mar 12, 2017 10:35:24 GMT -5
And where are all these studies showing man made injectable insulin puts T2D into remission? Start with this paper (http://spectrum.diabetesjournals.org/content/29/1/50), plus it's recent so it has a good set of references. |
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