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Post by sayhey24 on Mar 23, 2017 19:47:02 GMT -5
Thanks, I misread: yes its a grant, not just publication. Thats good. I dont know enough US law about whether a patent can be challenged after grant or whether thats the end of it. However I see this as good news since ultra rapid insulin plus basal now exists as an invention and is a distinct from exubera plus basal, and TI insulin therefore deemed not simply an obvious variation on the existing inhaled drug. I expect but don't know, that this presumably means mnkd can refer to the combined therapy as being a use of 'ultra rapid insulin', given that TI is FDA approved, basals are FDA approved, and the combined regime is a patented invention concerning one type of use of ultra rapid insulin. A patent can always be challenged on grounds but no one else has a monomer insulin. afrezza is the Holy Grail in insulin development. Novo Nordisk tried with the aspB10 development and killed the rats. Currently RAA are not even close. As far as I know and I try to follow developments closely no one else is even close. Stem cells show promise for short term - a few years in T1 but the antibodies kill off the new cells. Maybe afrezza may actually help to prolong beta cell life but no one has tried this that I know. For T2s the answer is easy, put them on afrezza day 1 of diagnosis and more than 50% will not need any medication in 6 months or less. There is no need for stem cells with most T2s. Now I never liked the phrase ultra rapid. Afrezza is not ultra rapid when compared to the pancreas, its identical. Its Natural, its the same. Rapid Acting is a misnomer marketing phrase which translates to SLOW when compared to the pancreas. When compared to R human hexamer insulin, yes its rapid but very few are even using it anymore.
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Post by sayhey24 on Mar 23, 2017 20:02:18 GMT -5
Thanks, I misread: yes its a grant, not just publication. Thats good. I dont know enough US law about whether a patent can be challenged after grant or whether thats the end of it. However I see this as good news since ultra rapid insulin plus basal now exists as an invention and is a distinct from exubera plus basal, and TI insulin therefore deemed not simply an obvious variation on the existing inhaled drug. I expect but don't know, that this presumably means mnkd can refer to the combined therapy as being a use of 'ultra rapid insulin', given that TI is FDA approved, basals are FDA approved, and the combined regime is a patented invention concerning one type of use of ultra rapid insulin. I'm just curious but who challenges a patent? The US patent office or outside parties? There are some bizarre patents out there. Things one would only find if they were already in the rabbit hole. I don't think the patent office cares as long as they get paid? Maybe. Just a guess. Patents are challenged all the time when infringed. My ex-partner had a company he keep going for years challenging digital photocell infringement. Your cell phone which has that camera. He had the patent until it expired. In this case no one else has monomer insulin. Victoria's comment about the use of Ultra rapid is interesting. While I never liked it Mannkind now has a patent which grants its use. I am not sure the FDA can now stop them from using it. If I where Matt I would put out an Ad and run it by the FDA with the patent number and see what they do. If they challenge it I would probably file suit since its patent approved.
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Post by goyocafe on Mar 23, 2017 20:12:46 GMT -5
I'm just curious but who challenges a patent? The US patent office or outside parties? There are some bizarre patents out there. Things one would only find if they were already in the rabbit hole. I don't think the patent office cares as long as they get paid? Maybe. Just a guess. Patents are challenged all the time when infringed. My ex-partner had a company he keep going for years challenging digital photocell infringement. Your cell phone which has that camera. He had the patent until it expired. In this case no one else has monomer insulin. Victoria's comment about the use of Ultra rapid is interesting. While I never liked it Mannkind now has a patent which grants its use. I am not sure the FDA can now stop them from using it. If I where Matt I would put out an Ad and run it by the FDA with the patent number and see what they do. If they challenge it I would probably file suit since its patent approved. FDA vs USPO! lovely
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Post by sayhey24 on Mar 23, 2017 20:17:44 GMT -5
Patents are challenged all the time when infringed. My ex-partner had a company he keep going for years challenging digital photocell infringement. Your cell phone which has that camera. He had the patent until it expired. In this case no one else has monomer insulin. Victoria's comment about the use of Ultra rapid is interesting. While I never liked it Mannkind now has a patent which grants its use. I am not sure the FDA can now stop them from using it. If I where Matt I would put out an Ad and run it by the FDA with the patent number and see what they do. If they challenge it I would probably file suit since its patent approved. FDA vs USPO! lovely Its even better, now the Whitehouse is involved as Elijah Cummings and Bernie Sanders are all pissed off at the Insulin price collusion with the Big 3. This could get interesting fast.
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Post by agedhippie on Mar 23, 2017 20:25:20 GMT -5
Patents are challenged all the time when infringed. My ex-partner had a company he keep going for years challenging digital photocell infringement. Your cell phone which has that camera. He had the patent until it expired. In this case no one else has monomer insulin. Victoria's comment about the use of Ultra rapid is interesting. While I never liked it Mannkind now has a patent which grants its use. I am not sure the FDA can now stop them from using it. If I where Matt I would put out an Ad and run it by the FDA with the patent number and see what they do. If they challenge it I would probably file suit since its patent approved. FDA vs USPO! lovely Never happen. The FDA handles drugs and the USPO handles patents. You could file a patent tomorrow saying you intend to treat diabetes with large doses of cyanide and they would accept it. A patent is just a patent - it confers no other benefits. You can no more use a patent to make an end run around the FDA than you can use an FDA approval to make an end run around the USPO.
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Post by sayhey24 on Mar 23, 2017 20:35:14 GMT -5
Never happen. The FDA handles drugs and the USPO handles patents. You could file a patent tomorrow saying you intend to treat diabetes with large doses of cyanide and they would accept it. A patent is just a patent - it confers no other benefits. You can no more use a patent to make an end run around the FDA than you can use an FDA approval to make an end run around the USPO. No one is talking about an end run. What I suggested was a front on assault. Take it right to the FDA. MNKD now has a patented term, and a patent demonstrating "Ultra". With the new administration they probably have a great chance of making this happen very soon. If Peggy Hamburg was still there they would have ZERO chance. With Scott Gottlieb there, I would say they have a really great chance. How long until Gottlieb is allowed in the front door, a month?
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Post by mango on Mar 23, 2017 21:20:06 GMT -5
I'm just curious but who challenges a patent? The US patent office or outside parties? There are some bizarre patents out there. Things one would only find if they were already in the rabbit hole. I don't think the patent office cares as long as they get paid? Maybe. Just a guess. Patents are challenged all the time when infringed. My ex-partner had a company he keep going for years challenging digital photocell infringement. Your cell phone which has that camera. He had the patent until it expired. In this case no one else has monomer insulin. Victoria's comment about the use of Ultra rapid is interesting. While I never liked it Mannkind now has a patent which grants its use. I am not sure the FDA can now stop them from using it. If I where Matt I would put out an Ad and run it by the FDA with the patent number and see what they do. If they challenge it I would probably file suit since its patent approved. Infringement, I gotcha. I thought ya'll meant something else. Al talked publicly a lot about his "team" researching patents and also making sure they aren't infringing. Technosphere was originally an anti-bioterrorism patent and one of a kind. I wonder when they will file for granting the heat-stable patent. Hmm. Such a great patent. Would be used with TechnoVax's vaccines, could be used with Afrezza, Mintaka's oxytocin. I know that other company that has a heat-stable inhaled oxytocin doesn't have anything close to what MannKind does. MannKind has the best inhaler, they have patents for a multi-dose inhaler as well. It is round, holds mulitple cartridges. MannKind has a lot of patent applications brewing. Ready to be filed at the right time? Maybe when everything falls into place? Al Mann talked about building a better mousetrap...
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Post by peppy on Mar 24, 2017 4:24:59 GMT -5
The mouse at the trap with a stopwatch. Every picture tells a story don't it. Quote " file for granting the heat-stable patent" Reply: There has to be some old technosphere human insulin (rDNA orgin ) they can be blowing up mice nostril's somewhere. That would be nice. tick, tock.
Additionally., interesting discussion. Thank you.
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Post by peppy on Mar 24, 2017 5:32:46 GMT -5
Thanks, I misread: yes its a grant, not just publication. Thats good. I dont know enough US law about whether a patent can be challenged after grant or whether thats the end of it. However I see this as good news since ultra rapid insulin plus basal now exists as an invention and is a distinct from exubera plus basal, and TI insulin therefore deemed not simply an obvious variation on the existing inhaled drug. I expect but don't know, that this presumably means mnkd can refer to the combined therapy as being a use of 'ultra rapid insulin', given that TI is FDA approved, basals are FDA approved, and the combined regime is a patented invention concerning one type of use of ultra rapid insulin.Quote: I see this as good news since ultra rapid insulin plus basal now exists as an invention presumably means mnkd can refer to the combined therapy as being a use of 'ultra rapid insulin', given that TI is FDA approved, basals are FDA approved, and the combined regime is a patented invention concerning one type of use of ultra rapid insulin.
Reply: dumb this down for me. when you say ultra rapid and basal now exists as an invention. Name the ultra rapid part? name the basal part of the invention? I want to make sure I understand.
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Post by agedhippie on Mar 24, 2017 9:58:22 GMT -5
Never happen. The FDA handles drugs and the USPO handles patents. You could file a patent tomorrow saying you intend to treat diabetes with large doses of cyanide and they would accept it. A patent is just a patent - it confers no other benefits. You can no more use a patent to make an end run around the FDA than you can use an FDA approval to make an end run around the USPO. No one is talking about an end run. What I suggested was a front on assault. Take it right to the FDA. MNKD now has a patented term, and a patent demonstrating "Ultra". With the new administration they probably have a great chance of making this happen very soon. If Peggy Hamburg was still there they would have ZERO chance. With Scott Gottlieb there, I would say they have a really great chance. How long until Gottlieb is allowed in the front door, a month? Whenever I have seen patented term before it has referred to the duration of the patent. I don't believe that the title or text of a patent confers any special rights beyond the patent. There is absolutely no way Mannkind will pick this fight because pharmas need the FDA at least not to be hostile.
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Post by cjc04 on Mar 24, 2017 12:01:25 GMT -5
No one is talking about an end run. What I suggested was a front on assault. Take it right to the FDA. MNKD now has a patented term, and a patent demonstrating "Ultra". With the new administration they probably have a great chance of making this happen very soon. If Peggy Hamburg was still there they would have ZERO chance. With Scott Gottlieb there, I would say they have a really great chance. How long until Gottlieb is allowed in the front door, a month? Whenever I have seen patented term before it has referred to the duration of the patent. I don't believe that the title or text of a patent confers any special rights beyond the patent. There is absolutely no way Mannkind will pick this fight because pharmas need the FDA at least not to be hostile. The FDA being "hostile" to MANNKIND could actually be an upgrade from "destructive"....
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Post by dreamboatcruise on Mar 24, 2017 12:12:09 GMT -5
I'm just curious but who challenges a patent? The US patent office or outside parties? There are some bizarre patents out there. Things one would only find if they were already in the rabbit hole. I don't think the patent office cares as long as they get paid? Maybe. Just a guess. Patents are challenged all the time when infringed. My ex-partner had a company he keep going for years challenging digital photocell infringement. Your cell phone which has that camera. He had the patent until it expired. In this case no one else has monomer insulin. Victoria's comment about the use of Ultra rapid is interesting. While I never liked it Mannkind now has a patent which grants its use. I am not sure the FDA can now stop them from using it. If I where Matt I would put out an Ad and run it by the FDA with the patent number and see what they do. If they challenge it I would probably file suit since its patent approved. Many believe Afrezza was unfairly delayed by the FDA merely for the transgression of Al criticizing the FDA. Hopefully MNKD would think twice before suing the FDA.
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Post by peppy on Mar 24, 2017 12:56:52 GMT -5
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Post by agedhippie on Mar 24, 2017 16:14:58 GMT -5
The thing is that description has no standing medically, you can call it what you like in a patent. If you try to use it in sales though the FDA will be on you like a ton of bricks.
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Post by victoria on Mar 24, 2017 18:05:58 GMT -5
Thanks, I misread: yes its a grant, not just publication. Thats good. I dont know enough US law about whether a patent can be challenged after grant or whether thats the end of it. However I see this as good news since ultra rapid insulin plus basal now exists as an invention and is a distinct from exubera plus basal, and TI insulin therefore deemed not simply an obvious variation on the existing inhaled drug. I expect but don't know, that this presumably means mnkd can refer to the combined therapy as being a use of 'ultra rapid insulin', given that TI is FDA approved, basals are FDA approved, and the combined regime is a patented invention concerning one type of use of ultra rapid insulin.Quote: I see this as good news since ultra rapid insulin plus basal now exists as an invention presumably means mnkd can refer to the combined therapy as being a use of 'ultra rapid insulin', given that TI is FDA approved, basals are FDA approved, and the combined regime is a patented invention concerning one type of use of ultra rapid insulin.
Reply: dumb this down for me. when you say ultra rapid and basal now exists as an invention. Name the ultra rapid part? name the basal part of the invention? I want to make sure I understand.
Hi Peppy Looking at the initial summary paragraph it says: Disclosed herein are improved methods of treating hyperglycemia with a combination of an ultrarapid acting insulin and insulin glargine comprising prandial administration of the ultrarapid insulin, and administration of a first dose of insulin glargine within 6 hours of waking for a day. In other words the patented invention is the method namely treatment with what the patent defines (as a term of art) 'ultrarapid' prandial insulin, plus glargine daily. Hence the patented invention is that form of combination therapy. As I think it to be, this means that the patented combination therapy can be referred to with physicians since it consists of fda approved drugs (so no worries using them) and the invention is simply the patented method which uses certain terms per the patent (you could equally say 'part one and part two' for TI and basal respectively, if that's what the patent said, or "head" and "handle" if someone invented a combination tool with a wooden shaft plus a heavy metal bit for bashing nails in called a "hammer"). I think that means 'ultrarapid' is therefore ok as an expression to describe the first part of the therapy when this dual treatment is used. But then what do I know, I'm not a US lawyer, don't take my view as more than for the purposes of discussion, for fun only, the value of your life can go down as well as up, not FDIC protected, and the lifestyle you ordered is out of stock. Terms and conditions apply, see website for details, E and OE (etc)..
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