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Post by Deleted on Aug 20, 2013 21:50:47 GMT -5
Douge, MannKind has the goods but they don't have the marketing resources that a solid BP has already in place and ready to go. Welcome to my case and point. This is why finding and establishing a partnership will be very difficult. If no one reaches out to Mnkd every company with an existing insulin product wins. Name a company that's willing to make a billionaire dollar bet. |
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Post by MnkdMainer (MM) on Aug 20, 2013 22:16:27 GMT -5
I'm not impressed with Douge's DD. If he has done that, I question his motives on this board.
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Post by StevieRay on Aug 20, 2013 22:16:51 GMT -5
Douge, MannKind has the goods but they don't have the marketing resources that a solid BP has already in place and ready to go. Welcome to my case and point. This is why finding and establishing a partnership will be very difficult. If no one reaches out to Mnkd every company with an existing insulin product wins. Name a company that's willing to make a billionaire dollar bet. I believe the inverse is true. BP will not want to take a pass on the potential revenue that could be easily had with this blockbuster drug. Name a company that will pass up this huge potential with very little risk. And I wouldn't consider it a "bet" per say. Whoever partners with MannKind will have their contingencies (FDA Approval, milestones etc.). Like I stated earlier that we have the goods which is blockbuster potential if marketed appropriately. All we need now is the "right" partner who also wants to make a lot of money. Name any BP that does not want to make easy money. You will be hard pressed to find any that will not want to get onboard. I guess we will have to agree to disagree. MannKind has an excellent product and I believe BP is knocking at the door. If no one is at the door then I seriously doubt that Greenhill & Company would be hired to handle the potential partners. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 20, 2013 23:42:11 GMT -5
I'm not impressed with Douge's DD. If he has done that, I question his motives on this board. I'm not here to impress anyone. I'm trying to contribute and stimulate a constructive conversation that welcomes any meaningful opinions. I have yet to hear one from you so please share your thoughts. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 20, 2013 23:47:49 GMT -5
Welcome to my case and point. This is why finding and establishing a partnership will be very difficult. If no one reaches out to Mnkd every company with an existing insulin product wins. Name a company that's willing to make a billionaire dollar bet. I believe the inverse is true. BP will not want to take a pass on the potential revenue that could be easily had with this blockbuster drug. Name a company that will pass up this huge potential with very little risk. And I wouldn't consider it a "bet" per say. Whoever partners with MannKind will have their contingencies (FDA Approval, milestones etc.). Like I stated earlier that we have the goods which is blockbuster potential if marketed appropriately. All we need now is the "right" partner who also wants to make a lot of money. Name any BP that does not want to make easy money. You will be hard pressed to find any that will not want to get onboard. I guess we will have to agree to disagree. MannKind has an excellent product and I believe BP is knocking at the door. If no one is at the door then I seriously doubt that Greenhill & Company would be hired to handle the potential partners. I believe a buyout is more likely in the future upon Afrezza showing the ability to penetrate the market and produce revenues. Why hasn't a partnership materialized before with the same terms you speak of such as funding contingent upon FDA approval? If a large and established company that specializes in the bio sector failed with multiple billions of dollars in marketing (Pfizer), what will be the substantial differentiation Afrezza have and not just claim? |
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Post by MnkdMainer (MM) on Aug 21, 2013 7:10:16 GMT -5
"... If a large and established company that specializes in the bio sector failed with multiple billions of dollars in marketing (Pfizer), what will be the substantial differentiation Afrezza have and not just claim?"
Douge, are you serious? Anyone who compares Afrezza to Exubera loses all credibility in my eyes.
P.S. Is that a sufficiently meaningful opinion to qualify as constructive conversation? If not, we will have to agree to disagree.
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Post by StevieRay on Aug 21, 2013 8:33:44 GMT -5
I believe the inverse is true. BP will not want to take a pass on the potential revenue that could be easily had with this blockbuster drug. Name a company that will pass up this huge potential with very little risk. And I wouldn't consider it a "bet" per say. Whoever partners with MannKind will have their contingencies (FDA Approval, milestones etc.). Like I stated earlier that we have the goods which is blockbuster potential if marketed appropriately. All we need now is the "right" partner who also wants to make a lot of money. Name any BP that does not want to make easy money. You will be hard pressed to find any that will not want to get onboard. I guess we will have to agree to disagree. MannKind has an excellent product and I believe BP is knocking at the door. If no one is at the door then I seriously doubt that Greenhill & Company would be hired to handle the potential partners. I believe a buyout is more likely in the future upon Afrezza showing the ability to penetrate the market and produce revenues. Why hasn't a partnership materialized before with the same terms you speak of such as funding contingent upon FDA approval? If a large and established company that specializes in the bio sector failed with multiple billions of dollars in marketing (Pfizer), what will be the substantial differentiation Afrezza have and not just claim? The longer BP waits for “certainty” the higher the price assuming the known certainties are positive. In terms of just dollars MannKind has spent roughly 2 billion to get us this far. But how much is that really worth to BP? How do you put a price of all the RISKs that were taken and overcome? And future risks? A true partner will share the risks going forward and pay a fair amount to buy into a partnership. So, how much do you think BP will pay for MannKind today vs sometime in the future? The answer requires putting a fair value on all the risks MannKind has endured and overcome. Along with all the potential revenue from the blockbuster drug Afrezza. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2013 13:26:17 GMT -5
I believe a buyout is more likely in the future upon Afrezza showing the ability to penetrate the market and produce revenues. Why hasn't a partnership materialized before with the same terms you speak of such as funding contingent upon FDA approval? If a large and established company that specializes in the bio sector failed with multiple billions of dollars in marketing (Pfizer), what will be the substantial differentiation Afrezza have and not just claim? The longer BP waits for “certainty” the higher the price assuming the known certainties are positive. In terms of just dollars MannKind has spent roughly 2 billion to get us this far. But how much is that really worth to BP? How do you put a price of all the RISKs that were taken and overcome? And future risks? A true partner will share the risks going forward and pay a fair amount to buy into a partnership. So, how much do you think BP will pay for MannKind today vs sometime in the future? The answer requires putting a fair value on all the risks MannKind has endured and overcome. Along with all the potential revenue from the blockbuster drug Afrezza. Certainty must be balanced out with risk. I see a potential buy-out in the future at 5-7 billion. The share count will be what matters to shareholders. Risks such as the last CRL, which shot investors in the foot when management decided to switch inhalers mid-trial showed lack of experience... possible partners don't pay for the risk and decisions the company has made prior to joining forces... they pay for their current being and potential future. But yes I agree, a true partner will share the risks going forward and more than likely pay a fair amount, that's basic knowledge. Mnkd management has dubbed Afrezza a future blockbuster drug themselves, it's not to say that it will be, note the disclosure before every CC stating optimistic and forward looking statements. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2013 13:29:59 GMT -5
"... If a large and established company that specializes in the bio sector failed with multiple billions of dollars in marketing (Pfizer), what will be the substantial differentiation Afrezza have and not just claim?" Douge, are you serious? Anyone who compares Afrezza to Exubera loses all credibility in my eyes. P.S. Is that a sufficiently meaningful opinion to qualify as constructive conversation? If not, we will have to agree to disagree. Why is that? Obviously Afrezza's inhaler is smaller and more "discret" then Exubera's but please look at the head to head comparisons between the two products... marginal difference. Bringing up Exubera and Afrezza was simply to show how they still classify as inhalable insulin thus subject to be categorized as such. To not look at this mere fact and say I've lost all credibility for it is to prove you have little to none yourself. Always look at preexisting products that are similar when choosing to analyze a products future potential. |
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Post by StevieRay on Aug 21, 2013 13:42:33 GMT -5
"... If a large and established company that specializes in the bio sector failed with multiple billions of dollars in marketing (Pfizer), what will be the substantial differentiation Afrezza have and not just claim?" Douge, are you serious? Anyone who compares Afrezza to Exubera loses all credibility in my eyes. P.S. Is that a sufficiently meaningful opinion to qualify as constructive conversation? If not, we will have to agree to disagree. Why is that? Obviously Afrezza's inhaler is smaller and more "discret" then Exubera's but please look at the head to head comparisons between the two products... marginal difference. Bringing up Exubera and Afrezza was simply to show how they still classify as inhalable insulin thus subject to be categorized as such. To not look at this mere fact and say I've lost all credibility for it is to prove you have little to none yourself. Always look at preexisting products that are similar when choosing to analyze a products future potential. Douge, Would you mind making a few comparisons between the two? We might want to consider a new thread - Afrezza vs Exubera. I think a lot of folks could benefit from this discussion and if you've already discussed it then please don't poke your eye out. Just don't visit the thread. For starters just here's a link that provides a basic overview of the two drugs: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inhalable_insulinJust by reviewing this material you would not conclude these two drugs were very similar other than how they enter the body. That's were the differences pretty much stop. |
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Post by StevieRay on Aug 21, 2013 13:46:53 GMT -5
Why is that? Obviously Afrezza's inhaler is smaller and more "discret" then Exubera's but please look at the head to head comparisons between the two products... marginal difference. Bringing up Exubera and Afrezza was simply to show how they still classify as inhalable insulin thus subject to be categorized as such. To not look at this mere fact and say I've lost all credibility for it is to prove you have little to none yourself. Always look at preexisting products that are similar when choosing to analyze a products future potential. Douge, Would you mind making a few comparisons between the two? We might want to consider a new thread - Afrezza vs Exubera. I think a lot of folks could benefit from this discussion and if you've already discussed it then please don't poke your eye out. Just don't visit the thread. For starters just here's a link that provides a basic overview of the two drugs: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inhalable_insulinJust by reviewing this material you would not conclude these two drugs were very similar other than how they enter the body. That's were the similarities pretty much stop. |
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Post by brentie on Aug 21, 2013 13:48:27 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2013 13:49:39 GMT -5
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inhalable_insulinThank you for proving my point. They're both classified and categorized as inhalable insulin. For insulin-treated patients with diabetes, the needle required for a subcutaneous (sc) injection of insulin is the symbol for their disease. The pain associated with this route of insulin administration was reduced substantially in the last decades by the development of modern needles with their extremely sharp tips, a polished surface, and a coating that allows easy penetration into the skin. Therefore, once patients experience that a sc injection is more or less free of pain in most cases (when you do not hit a nerve ending directly), this is no longer a hurdle for most patients.
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Post by StevieRay on Aug 21, 2013 13:53:49 GMT -5
"Exubera and Technosphere Insulin have many, many important differences. In this article, I will highlight two of them. The first major difference between them is the medical advantage. Exubera had no, I repeat, no medical advantages over conventional injected insulin. This gave Exubera real headaches. With no medical advantages, it was hard to get doctors to prescribe it. Doctors figure that there’s no reason to break with the tried and true for a new, relatively untested insulin that doesn’t even claim to offer any medical benefit. Frankly, I agree with them. " I wonder how they ever got passed their non-inferiority study to prove any clinical utility. |
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Post by liane on Aug 21, 2013 13:56:34 GMT -5
douge,
Afrezza and Exubera may both be inhaled, but totally different pharmacokinetics.
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