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Post by mnholdem on Nov 14, 2017 21:28:10 GMT -5
Agreements can be written without exclusivity clauses. DexCom primarily services the T1 diabetes market but Afrezza offers the potential for DexCom (and other CGM companies) to expand its presence in the lucrative T2 diabetes treatment market. The same could be said about Libre and OneDrop. There is currently an active clinical study with Afrezza + DexCom (STAT) and another with Afrezza + OneDrop (A-ONE). Perhaps there will be an Afrezza + Libre study before much longer. Forget exclusivity because it won't happen. What might happen is that the MOU between OneDrop and Afrezza may evolve into a collaboration where the MannKind sales force sells OneDrop along with Afrezza. As far as a BP getting involved, that's a separate issue. What would Mannkind sales force be selling to doctors with regard to OneDrop... merely trying to convince them to recommend it to patients? Absolutely. OneDrop is an EXTREMELY affordable way to monitor BP, especially with T2 patients visiting a primary care doctor and the Afrezza-OneDrop combo would be of interest to many doctors, IMO.
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Post by sellhighdrinklow on Nov 14, 2017 21:57:56 GMT -5
Unless the technology stagnates for some strange reason it shouldn't become a commodity. There certainly could be tons of improvement... smaller, longer life, better accuracy, less invasive, non-invasive. There likely is at least a decade of improvements in store for BG monitoring tech. Dexcom had to hire Google to figure out the G6 bugs and they had a snowball's chance in hell of ever developing the band-aid without Google. However Tim Cook has been walking around the Bay Area since January with the CGM IWatch and I hear its pretty darn good and more of a marketing decision not to release yet. When it is it will be a fitness device not requiring FDA approval. At the same time Fitbit is playing catch-up and recently partnered with Dexcom and OneDrop. For me its a thing a beauty coming together as the only thing which will save afrezza is technology. Not until everyone has a CGM IWatch or similar and can see the BG levels all the time will they start caring they are 180, 220 or 250 or more. "The only thing that will save Afrezza is technology?" Maybe so, as I told my Endo that I couldn't have dialed Afrezza in without my Dexcom. That being said a 4- unit inhale for every Tye 2, post meal is a no brainer, imho.
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Post by sellhighdrinklow on Nov 14, 2017 22:10:45 GMT -5
Unless the technology stagnates for some strange reason it shouldn't become a commodity. There certainly could be tons of improvement... smaller, longer life, better accuracy, less invasive, non-invasive. There likely is at least a decade of improvements in store for BG monitoring tech. Dexcom had to hire Google to figure out the G6 bugs and they had a snowball's chance in hell of ever developing the band-aid without Google. However Tim Cook has been walking around the Bay Area since January with the CGM IWatch and I hear its pretty darn good and more of a marketing decision not to release yet. When it is it will be a fitness device not requiring FDA approval. At the same time Fitbit is playing catch-up and recently partnered with Dexcom and OneDrop. For me its a thing a beauty coming together as the only thing which will save afrezza is technology. Not until everyone has a CGM IWatch or similar and can see the BG levels all the time will they start caring they are 180, 220 or 250 or more. "The only thing that will save Afrezza is technology?" Maybe so, as I told my Endo that I couldn't have dialed Afrezza in without my Dexcom. That being said a 4- unit inhale for every Tye 2, post meal is a no brainer, imho.
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Post by agedhippie on Nov 14, 2017 22:59:32 GMT -5
My understanding and maybe incorrect is Dexcom has exclusive rights to the G6 but the M&M and the contact lens were not Dexcoms. They also have rights to the non-invasive sometimes called the band-aid CGM which is discussed here verily.com/projects/sensors/miniaturized-gcm/ The target market for this is the T2. For some reason I thought Ondou was in the M&M mix. Hopefully we will know soon what Ondou is doing and how this shakes out. Actually what you are saying about the Libre is incorrect. The last 16 minutes are available on the sensor by minute. It then stores 15 minute chunks. The limiting factor is the Abbott reader which will probably be further hacked up for the FDA imposed 10 day limit and the 12 hour startup. If you want continuous updates and alarms use this www.ambrosiasys.com/ and get the Glimp. You can do this today and my guess is you will be able to get 17 days out of the 10 day U.S. Libre. I am planning on getting one of the first available and try it out. Now some T1s are saying all the alarming drives them crazy and they won't miss it at all. To each his own but if the sensor is running $20 a week its getting pretty affordable and ideal for performance based insurance which is coming faster and faster. The sensor pill was approved today which will pick up the velocity even more. The arrangement was covered in the original press release, and also in the 10K. From the press release: DexCom retains all sales and distribution rights of the products developed under this agreement. DexCom is also obligated to pay an initial upfront payment and milestone payments during development, and revenue-based royalties once these products are launched and have achieved a certain level of revenue.
From the original agreement (with Google Life Sciences LLC and not Verily for anyone searching for it!): The Collaboration Agreement provides DexCom with an exclusive license to use certain intellectual property of GLS related to the development, manufacture and commercialization of the products contemplated under the Collaboration Agreement.I would be interested to know how you find the Libre. I nearly bought one from the UK but the lag between ordering and delivery at the time meant I couldn't be in the UK to collect it. Alarms can be a complete pain, but they are useful for catching things when they are heading out of control. If you tried to tighten the range to much I can see them generating a lot of false alarms.
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Post by madog365 on Nov 14, 2017 23:04:08 GMT -5
One Drop is first and foremost a data company. Their current revenue model may involve selling test strips but they are are really doing is building software platform for diabetics.
There’s a reason why Afrezza dream Hale Bluetooth technology was mentioned in the PR as a major component of partnership. There is a data element that plays into their longer term strategy while Afrezza benefits from their distribution model and experts coaching.
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Post by gamblerjag on Nov 15, 2017 0:27:48 GMT -5
What would Mannkind sales force be selling to doctors with regard to OneDrop... merely trying to convince them to recommend it to patients? Absolutely. OneDrop is an EXTREMELY affordable way to monitor BP, especially with T2 patients visiting a primary care doctor and the Afrezza-OneDrop combo would be of interest to many doctors, IMO. . Not sure if this is from diabetes daytoday or a past year. I think today. I have never seen it saw it on stock twits moderators please place video where appropriate thanks m.youtube.com/watch?v=nAFELKYkiuU
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Post by dreamboatcruise on Nov 15, 2017 3:13:52 GMT -5
What would Mannkind sales force be selling to doctors with regard to OneDrop... merely trying to convince them to recommend it to patients? Absolutely. OneDrop is an EXTREMELY affordable way to monitor BP, especially with T2 patients visiting a primary care doctor and the Afrezza-OneDrop combo would be of interest to many doctors, IMO. Well, if there is something about bringing a BG meter along that would increase a doctor's interest in prescribing Afrezza, I'm all for it. Though don't quite see that a meter is getting at most doctors' disinterest in prescribing.
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Post by sportsrancho on Nov 15, 2017 6:03:54 GMT -5
Absolutely. OneDrop is an EXTREMELY affordable way to monitor BP, especially with T2 patients visiting a primary care doctor and the Afrezza-OneDrop combo would be of interest to many doctors, IMO. . Not sure if this is from diabetes daytoday or a past year. I think today. I have never seen it saw it on stock twits moderators please place video where appropriate thanks m.youtube.com/watch?v=nAFELKYkiuU Good find! It’s on Twitter now per request:-) I just saw Mike was the one who first tweeted it:-)
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Post by sayhey24 on Nov 15, 2017 6:31:18 GMT -5
My understanding and maybe incorrect is Dexcom has exclusive rights to the G6 but the M&M and the contact lens were not Dexcoms. They also have rights to the non-invasive sometimes called the band-aid CGM which is discussed here verily.com/projects/sensors/miniaturized-gcm/ The target market for this is the T2. For some reason I thought Ondou was in the M&M mix. Hopefully we will know soon what Ondou is doing and how this shakes out. Actually what you are saying about the Libre is incorrect. The last 16 minutes are available on the sensor by minute. It then stores 15 minute chunks. The limiting factor is the Abbott reader which will probably be further hacked up for the FDA imposed 10 day limit and the 12 hour startup. If you want continuous updates and alarms use this www.ambrosiasys.com/ and get the Glimp. You can do this today and my guess is you will be able to get 17 days out of the 10 day U.S. Libre. I am planning on getting one of the first available and try it out. Now some T1s are saying all the alarming drives them crazy and they won't miss it at all. To each his own but if the sensor is running $20 a week its getting pretty affordable and ideal for performance based insurance which is coming faster and faster. The sensor pill was approved today which will pick up the velocity even more. The arrangement was covered in the original press release, and also in the 10K. From the press release: DexCom retains all sales and distribution rights of the products developed under this agreement. DexCom is also obligated to pay an initial upfront payment and milestone payments during development, and revenue-based royalties once these products are launched and have achieved a certain level of revenue.
From the original agreement (with Google Life Sciences LLC and not Verily for anyone searching for it!): The Collaboration Agreement provides DexCom with an exclusive license to use certain intellectual property of GLS related to the development, manufacture and commercialization of the products contemplated under the Collaboration Agreement.I would be interested to know how you find the Libre. I nearly bought one from the UK but the lag between ordering and delivery at the time meant I couldn't be in the UK to collect it. Alarms can be a complete pain, but they are useful for catching things when they are heading out of control. If you tried to tighten the range to much I can see them generating a lot of false alarms. I know for a fact the contact lens is not under the agreement. I was also under the impression the M&M was not under the phrase "DexCom with an exclusive license to use certain" with the key word certain. Google had already started that development prior to the agreement but maybe Dexcon will be the distributor. I think it really depends on what Ondou is. The Libre is great. I just got a few more from Germany. It takes about a 10 days for delivery but the price keeps going up. They use to sell for about $60 a sensor now about $75. With the Glimp you can calibrate the sensor reading with finger stick and get a better calibration. I think VDex has been using the pro version with their PWDs and the pro seems to have really caught on with a lot of endos as a new profit center. For the T1 if you have insurance coverage I would get the Dexcom but I don't like poking my finger. Touching the phone to the sensor is no big deal.
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Post by sportsrancho on Nov 15, 2017 6:38:28 GMT -5
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Post by mnholdem on Nov 15, 2017 8:26:53 GMT -5
Absolutely. OneDrop is an EXTREMELY affordable way to monitor BP, especially with T2 patients visiting a primary care doctor and the Afrezza-OneDrop combo would be of interest to many doctors, IMO. . Not sure if this is from diabetes daytoday or a past year. I think today. I have never seen it saw it on stock twits moderators please place video where appropriate thanks m.youtube.com/watch?v=nAFELKYkiuUIn this news video, which is focusing on World Diabetes Day, the commentator & doctor both point out that younger people will be attracted to Afrezza, not only because it's the "newest thing" but because it will fit with their lifestyle, which the Afrezza patient in the report clearly stated was important to him, saying "there's a significantly better quality of life than continuous injections... I'm a big fan."
Lifestyle will be important to many younger people with diabetes, and the commentator was quick to point out that it's a shame that it's not available to people under the age of 18. "But they are working on that..."
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Post by dreamboatcruise on Nov 15, 2017 11:39:33 GMT -5
Absolutely. OneDrop is an EXTREMELY affordable way to monitor BP, especially with T2 patients visiting a primary care doctor and the Afrezza-OneDrop combo would be of interest to many doctors, IMO. . Not sure if this is from diabetes daytoday or a past year. I think today. I have never seen it saw it on stock twits moderators please place video where appropriate thanks m.youtube.com/watch?v=nAFELKYkiuUThat is a really good segment on Afrezza. No throwing in of unnecessary disclaimers. States benefits including speed and less hypos. Says comparable price. 70 - 80% insurance coverage... that almost sounds a little too optimistic, but better that than being too pessimistic. I nominate this for best Afrezza news coverage of 2017... the Frezzie award. EVERYONE... I'd suggest going on youtube and giving the thumbs up to this video.
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Post by jonny80s on Nov 15, 2017 11:58:21 GMT -5
Perhaps a commercial similar to one that I've seen recently for V8 juice. They have a competition where a weight lifter and a "regular guy" are getting their daily fruit and vegetable requirements. The weightlifter has to shake his concoction while the "regular guy" opens his V* and drinks it. Of course the "regular guy" wins going away. Imagine the imagery of a person loading the TS and breathing in their Afrezza put against a person who has to draw insulin into a needle, push it into a meaty spot on the their body and shooting up their dose. Better yet it might be cool to see the person with the syringe excuse themselves and disappearing from the screen and not coming back until 20-30 seconds have past. Not as long as it would take someone to excuse themselves and go to the bathroom in real time but the 20-30 seconds would be an eternity in a 60 second commercial. Better yet, two individuals presented with a tasty meal, afrezza guys inhales and starts eating. 2nd individual disappears and returns a minute later to sit and watch the meal get cold for another 30 minutes before finally digging into it..... meal is cold and the individual is obviously less satisfied than the first. As second individual is disappointingly eating/sitting alone at table... afrezza user has already joined rest of family and friends in a game of.... whatever..... Difficult to get across in a 30-60 second add, but reasonable enough for an internet audience.
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Post by zuegirdor on Nov 15, 2017 12:08:27 GMT -5
Agreements can be written without exclusivity clauses. DexCom primarily services the T1 diabetes market but Afrezza offers the potential for DexCom (and other CGM companies) to expand its presence in the lucrative T2 diabetes treatment market. The same could be said about Libre and OneDrop. There is currently an active clinical study with Afrezza + DexCom (STAT) and another with Afrezza + OneDrop (A-ONE). Perhaps there will be an Afrezza + Libre study before much longer. Forget exclusivity because it won't happen. What might happen is that the MOU between OneDrop and Afrezza may evolve into a collaboration where the MannKind sales force sells OneDrop along with Afrezza. As far as a BP getting involved, that's a separate issue. I am pretty sure that VDEX runs its studies using Abbot CGM. Not a clinical trial but...
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Post by zuegirdor on Nov 15, 2017 12:11:26 GMT -5
My understanding and maybe incorrect is Dexcom has exclusive rights to the G6 but the M&M and the contact lens were not Dexcoms. They also have rights to the non-invasive sometimes called the band-aid CGM which is discussed here verily.com/projects/sensors/miniaturized-gcm/ The target market for this is the T2. For some reason I thought Ondou was in the M&M mix. Hopefully we will know soon what Ondou is doing and how this shakes out. Actually what you are saying about the Libre is incorrect. The last 16 minutes are available on the sensor by minute. It then stores 15 minute chunks. The limiting factor is the Abbott reader which will probably be further hacked up for the FDA imposed 10 day limit and the 12 hour startup. If you want continuous updates and alarms use this www.ambrosiasys.com/ and get the Glimp. You can do this today and my guess is you will be able to get 17 days out of the 10 day U.S. Libre. I am planning on getting one of the first available and try it out. Now some T1s are saying all the alarming drives them crazy and they won't miss it at all. To each his own but if the sensor is running $20 a week its getting pretty affordable and ideal for performance based insurance which is coming faster and faster. The sensor pill was approved today which will pick up the velocity even more. Sensor Pill?
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