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Post by agedhippie on Jun 2, 2018 15:12:19 GMT -5
The history of that image is interesting. It comes from a campaign by Diabetes UK back when they were called the British Diabetes Association (they changed the name in 2000) and was part of a larger campaign to prevent the NHS from making people use syringes by withdrawing insulin pens. The campaign was wildly successful with the prime minister himself standing up in parliament to announce the withdrawal of the proposed policy. The image is problematic now as most diabetics or endos would look at you strangely if you suggested that they use syringes as it's virtually all pumps and pens (even back then it was mostly pens which was the point of the campaign). I think that image is extremely powerful. The syringes represent the number of times the needle penetrates the skin, regardless if the dose is delivered by a “pen”. I hope MNKD uses that image in conjunction with the word “barbaric” in upcoming advertising. They would have to get Diabetes UK to agree since they own the copyright I believe. There is no way MNKD uses the word barbaric in upcoming adverts, the FDA simply would not allow it as that is a subjective opinion. I am really surprised that Dr Kendall used that term since I would have thought it would devalue his message in the eyes of endos. If the endo believes that statement is stupid then they are likely to regard the rest of the message as suspect as well. |
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Post by mannmade on Jun 2, 2018 15:21:08 GMT -5
I have to disagree with you on one point Aged as follows... I was speaking with a good friend of mine yesterday who is one of the leading prescribers of Afrezza in the country and one of the first doctors to see the real benefits. He knows Dr. K very well and told me he is a rockstar both here in the US and internationally (as many of us already know) when it comes to the diabetes community. I think for such a well known and respected professional to describe current prandial mealtime/therapies as "Barbaric" will cause a lot of other docs to pay attention and they will likely want to know why he said it. Need to find ways to stand out from the clutter and the noise and Dr. K did just that with one word... And it did not cost a dime of marketing dollars to start this conversation... Now this is organic word of mouth advertising at its best! Perhaps Dr. K also has a Phd in marketing...  |
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Post by joeypotsandpans on Jun 2, 2018 15:24:13 GMT -5
I think that image is extremely powerful. The syringes represent the number of times the needle penetrates the skin, regardless if the dose is delivered by a “pen”. I hope MNKD uses that image in conjunction with the word “barbaric” in upcoming advertising. They would have to get Diabetes UK to agree since they own the copyright I believe. There is no way MNKD uses the word barbaric in upcoming adverts, the FDA simply would not allow it as that is a subjective opinion. I am really surprised that Dr Kendall used that term since I would have thought it would devalue his message in the eyes of endos. If the endo believes that statement is stupid then they are likely to regard the rest of the message as suspect as well. Have you ever listened to him in person, he is a very powerful and charismatic speaker. When he used the terms, it wasn't taken lightly and it was in complete sincerity. His other statement was extremely sincere as well, that being, WE have a moral obligation to the kids/pediatrics as well with the we meaning the medical community and his speaking to that arena not the shareholders sitting there. They are not just sitting back and waiting for the ADA, the message is already getting out to the endo's in my community. He is extremely respected by the endo's, I laughed when I read your statement about the endos thinking any statement coming from him would be deemed stupid....I believe they will get the correct message loud and clear if not already starting to happen. Funny Mannmade, just saw your post after posting this, goes right in line with the point I was making  |
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Post by agedhippie on Jun 2, 2018 15:40:11 GMT -5
I have to disagree with you on one point Aged as follows... I was speaking with a good friend of mine yesterday who is one of the leading prescribers of Afrezza in the country and one of the first doctors to see the real benefits. He knows Dr. K very well and told me he is a rockstar both here in the US and internationally (as many of us already know) when it comes to the diabetes community. I think for such a well known and respected professional to describe current prandial mealtime/therapies as "Barbaric" will cause a lot of other docs to pay attention and they will likely want to know why he said it. Need to find ways to stand out from the clutter and the noise and Dr. K did just that with one word... And it did not cost a dime of marketing dollars to start this conversation... Now this is organic word of mouth advertising at its best! Perhaps Dr. K also has a Phd in marketing... I think he could get away with it. Could that carry over to an advertising campaign? The FDA would stamp on it. You are right though, the comment itself could start a conversation and make the audience more receptive to the adverts. A large part of his role is about marketing it's his responsibility to ensure that actionable data is put out there in a form that can be used. He put it well in the Healthline interview; " ...you’re producing scientific information that’s valid and meaningful to the regulatory agencies, as well as to anyone who will be an end-user. It’s an experience as much as a therapy." That last sentence is the key. |
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Post by mannmade on Jun 2, 2018 16:01:38 GMT -5
Agree Aged, I used to own an advertising and marketing agency with some very big clients. Worked on several phama campaigns. Not likely to use Barbaric in any of them if for no other reason than just so as to not piss off the big boys, as we could not keep up with money spend in a smut campaign even if FDA apporved. However as for social media and word of mouth it is perfect, imho...
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Post by dreamboatcruise on Jun 2, 2018 16:50:35 GMT -5
I guess in marketing as in politics, going negative connects with some and turns some off.
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Post by sophie on Jun 2, 2018 17:25:43 GMT -5
Dr. K may or may not be well known by endos across the nation. Depends on how well those docs stay current with their research. One would think that if those docs do their research, they have already heard of Afrezza as well. I do wonder how many GP's have heard of Dr. Kendall. Those are the people you'd really have to reach...
Personally, I'm not a fan of extreme verbiage. Part of scientific training is to rely on observation. Trust senses over emotion. While physicians probably do still have emotions- at least one would hope they haven't become jaded beyond repair and still have some sense of compassion- emotional words would catch my attention, but likely turn me off. I suppose it boils down to how well he supports that claim.
The problem as I see it is that I don't think the great majority of physicians would consider current insulin "barbaric". They might consider it ineffective, insufficient, dangerous, etc, but I highly doubt any would shake their head in agreement if someone told them it was barbaric. It comes across as being extreme and biased. They'll likely think "Of course someone that works for a company that manufactures a different form of insulin will make such claims." Or "This guy is off his rocker now." Instead of attacking previous insulins, I think it would have been better to praise Afrezza. "The first physiologic insulin" "Insulin that reduces hypos and reduces weight gain normally associated with insulin" or whatever else he plans on claiming at the ADA.
In short, I don't see any benefit to calling insulin barbaric, but several drawbacks. Claims are only as powerful as the evidence used to support them. Might as well just let the evidence do the talking.
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Post by peppy on Jun 2, 2018 17:33:27 GMT -5
I have to disagree with you on one point Aged as follows... I was speaking with a good friend of mine yesterday who is one of the leading prescribers of Afrezza in the country and one of the first doctors to see the real benefits. He knows Dr. K very well and told me he is a rockstar both here in the US and internationally (as many of us already know) when it comes to the diabetes community. I think for such a well known and respected professional to describe current prandial mealtime/therapies as "Barbaric" will cause a lot of other docs to pay attention and they will likely want to know why he said it. Need to find ways to stand out from the clutter and the noise and Dr. K did just that with one word... And it did not cost a dime of marketing dollars to start this conversation... Now this is organic word of mouth advertising at its best! Perhaps Dr. K also has a Phd in marketing... I think he could get away with it. Could that carry over to an advertising campaign? The FDA would stamp on it. You are right though, the comment itself could start a conversation and make the audience more receptive to the adverts. A large part of his role is about marketing it's his responsibility to ensure that actionable data is put out there in a form that can be used. He put it well in the Healthline interview; " ...you’re producing scientific information that’s valid and meaningful to the regulatory agencies, as well as to anyone who will be an end-user. It’s an experience as much as a therapy." That last sentence is the key. Aged, just to know, why does the word barbaric bother you so much? If Barbaric = primitive. Primitive would be fine with me. |
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Post by agedhippie on Jun 2, 2018 17:44:47 GMT -5
I think he could get away with it. Could that carry over to an advertising campaign? The FDA would stamp on it. You are right though, the comment itself could start a conversation and make the audience more receptive to the adverts. A large part of his role is about marketing it's his responsibility to ensure that actionable data is put out there in a form that can be used. He put it well in the Healthline interview; " ...you’re producing scientific information that’s valid and meaningful to the regulatory agencies, as well as to anyone who will be an end-user. It’s an experience as much as a therapy." That last sentence is the key. Aged, just to know, why does the word barbaric bother you so much? If Barbaric = primitive. Primitive would be fine with me. What bothers me is that it's entirely subjective. I inject several times a day and I don't see it as barbaric, rather it is banal. I can see that someone who has never injected regularly could regard it with horror, but then I feel that way about acupuncture (shiver) and yet millions of people love it. Calling injecting insulin barbaric is a great attention-getter, both friendly and hostile, but the real question is what you do with that attention. |
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Post by joeypotsandpans on Jun 2, 2018 17:48:15 GMT -5
Dr. K may or may not be well known by endos across the nation. Depends on how well those docs stay current with their research. One would think that if those docs do their research, they have already heard of Afrezza as well. I do wonder how many GP's have heard of Dr. Kendall. Those are the people you'd really have to reach... Personally, I'm not a fan of extreme verbiage. Maybe it's because DBC (and I) are "trained" in science. Part of that training is to rely on observation. Trust senses over emotion. While physicians probably do still have emotions- at least one would hope they haven't become jaded beyond repair and still have some sense of compassion- emotional words would catch my attention, but likely turn me off. I suppose it boils down to how well he supports that claim. The problem as I see it is that I don't think the great majority of physicians would consider current insulin "barbaric". They might consider it ineffective, insufficient, dangerous, etc, but I highly doubt any would shake their head in agreement if someone told them it was barbaric. It comes across as being extreme and biased. They'll likely think "Of course someone that works for a company that manufactures a different form of insulin will make such claims." Or "This guy is off his rocker now." Instead of attacking previous insulins, I think it would have been better to praise Afrezza. "The first physiologic insulin" "Insulin that reduces hypos and reduces weight gain normally associated with insulin" or whatever else he plans on claiming at the ADA. In short, I don't see any benefit to calling insulin barbaric, but several drawbacks. Claims are only as powerful as the evidence used to support them. Might as well just let the evidence do the talking.
 
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Post by sportsrancho on Jun 2, 2018 19:05:55 GMT -5
I am at loss for words, all I can say is GET SHORTY😁
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Post by minnlearner on Jun 2, 2018 19:29:19 GMT -5
I am at loss for words, all I can say is GET SHORTY😁 Sports, From your lips to the almighty Flying Spaghetti Monster's ear!! Let Karma into it also! To the starts and beyond! |
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Post by peppy on Jun 2, 2018 19:34:43 GMT -5
I am at loss for words, all I can say is GET SHORTY😁 Sports, From your lips to the almighty Flying Spaghetti Monster's ear!! Let Karma into it also! To the starts and beyond! heh. Minnesota. Have you seen any walleye's yet minn? Where in the world, is Dr. Kendall?  |
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Post by rockstarrick on Jun 2, 2018 19:41:30 GMT -5
While I agree things could be, and needs to be much better, I still find it hard to understand why people still throw out this “mnkd better or its over crap”,, This Company and it’s shareholders have been to the gates of hell and back,, we have been in way worse shape than we are today, yet we’re still here. This clatter of how it’s either this or the parties over is just a bunch of garbage. Afrezza and mnkd are here to stay, the worst of times are behind us. Watch and learn boys and girls,, The Rock Star has Spoken ✌🏻🎸😎 You're right, a more accurate way of saying it and what I should have said is that the value of the shares that i bought in 2013 is over, not mnkd. If we need another product to be successful, it will take many more years and probably many more big dilutions. Mnkd will still be there but it will be hard to recover the lost in value of those shares. You realise that some people bought at 30-35$. It is x15 from now just to get even or around 6,5 b in mc... Witout anymore dilution... Ultimately, It is very Nice if mnkd survive and all but what I want is to see my money back and more. I didnt invest in mnkd in 2013 as a charity so they can survive but to make more money. That being said, i do think 10b is attainable at some point in the futur if every things goes well and thats why i also bought a lot below 2$ so im confident that overall Ill be good but still thinking about my 2013 shares. Maybe im seeing it the wrong way. Of course if you think the mc can go to 25b, 50b dilution doesnt really matter so it is a question of perspective but i think this is a bit stretching, especially if afrezza is not a success. So you bought in between $6 and $7/share, then got hit with the 1 for 5 split, so break even is $30 to $35/share. although my original purchase price was considerably lower than yours,, I have maintained a healthy core, (that I am down on), and have flipped 5000 shares around my core, that has eased my losses. Not to mention, when everybody was selling the day that Sanofi and a Mannkind split, I doubled my position, (@ .64/share),, Taking chances with MNKD, has more often than not, worked out for me. Also, if, and a BIG if, mnkd is able to continue this gradule Income growth week to week, your $30 to $35/share should be more than recovered. IN MY OPINION !! I do sense a change in sentiment, and believe sooner than later MNKD longs will be on the right side of the trade again. again,,just my opinion Time will tell ✌🏻😎 |
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Post by sophie on Jun 2, 2018 20:00:43 GMT -5
primitive, ancient, obsolete, dinosauric, torturous, annoying as all heck, antiquated, monotonous, not conducive to being compliant, etc. etc. oh yeah, forgot a big one NOT AS SAFE, less convenient, do you think those physicians would get turned off with the use of those descriptions as well?
I prefer respectful dialogue, but I'll entertain your question. Primitive, ancient, obsolete, and antiquated would all be better than "barbaric". If you look at the first definition of barbaric (found by googling "barbaric"), which is the one I think the vast majority of users intend when they say barbaric it, you would get: savagely cruel; exceedingly brutal. A graphic of needles sticking out of a child is certainly a powerful image, but as agedhippie has said in his post(s), very few insulin injections, if any, are given with a syringe instead of a very fine pen needle. There is a psychological barrier to overcome with injection, but once it's overcome, self-injection is not that big of a deal. To call it savagely cruel or brutal would be a gross overstatement, and as such, I believe it may cause lack of credibility. To put it another way, what if someone handed you mild salsa and told you it was barbaric to eat it? Some people can't even taste the spiciness of mild salsa. They would laugh at anyone who called it barbaric. If that person instead said that mild salsa had less flavor, less zest, etc, than spicier salsa, they'd be much more effective in their communication. Primitive/obsolete has a much different meaning than savagely cruel or exceedingly brutal. While you can disagree with me if you'd like, I am of the opinion that any of the other adjectives in blue would have been better suited to address the medical community as they are more objective and less reliant on sensationalism. |
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