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Post by Deleted on May 20, 2022 12:00:14 GMT -5
After thinking about the acquisition of V-GO.....it's a brilliant move. Right now MNKD has 5,000 Afrezza users which means he has tripled their customer base.
MNKD spent $1,000 Dollars to get their name and address. What are the odds of Mike converting them over to Afrezza which will have higher margins. I would say pretty high! Also remember the patients are Type 2's on Medicare and probably already use a CGM. Awesome move.
I believe Mike wanted to do this with ONE DROP but was unable to obtain their embedded database. Gee what ever happened to the developmental deal with ONE DROP?
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Post by uvula on May 20, 2022 12:08:01 GMT -5
How can these medicare patients afford paying for Afrezza? Trippling the customer base doesn't help if we subsidize a majority of them. (Yes I'm being negative again but please explain why I'm wrong.)
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Post by peppy on May 20, 2022 12:17:46 GMT -5
How can these medicare patients afford paying for Afrezza? Trippling the customer base doesn't help if we subsidize a majority of them. (Yes I'm being negative again but please explain why I'm wrong.) They can't. The CGM for medicare, I believe it was only for injectable insulin, however it may be the only thing Kendall got changed, the CMG on medicare may now include inhalable insulin as I recall from the standards of care. Try to get one. Hoops I think. Proofs and stuff. I think the continuous glucose monitor may be covered under Part B, the mechanical stuff. |
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Post by porkini on May 20, 2022 12:20:12 GMT -5
How can these medicare patients afford paying for Afrezza? Trippling the customer base doesn't help if we subsidize a majority of them. (Yes I'm being negative again but please explain why I'm wrong.) I agree, kind of. We are paying more than ever since my wife went on Medicare (I assume you didn't mean Medicaid). That was a surprise to me that I was going to get socked for some thousands a year when she's been paying into her whole work life and was cheaper as an insured on my group insurance prior to Medicare. Even though she is on Medicare and I will be in a couple years, we could still afford to pay for Afrezza if we needed to. Medicare does not mean you are without resources. |
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Post by nylefty on May 20, 2022 13:20:03 GMT -5
Medicare pays 80 percent of the cost of CGMs if you're on any kind of insulin, including Afrezza. It pays nothing for any kind of insulin, although private plans for Medicare recipients cover at least some injectable insulins. But as far as I know none of these plans cover Afrezza.
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Post by robbmo on May 20, 2022 13:23:53 GMT -5
How can these medicare patients afford paying for Afrezza? Trippling the customer base doesn't help if we subsidize a majority of them. (Yes I'm being negative again but please explain why I'm wrong.) I agree, kind of. We are paying more than ever since my wife went on Medicare (I assume you didn't mean Medicaid). That was a surprise to me that I was going to get socked for some thousands a year when she's been paying into her whole work life and was cheaper as an insured on my group insurance prior to Medicare. Even though she is on Medicare and I will be in a couple years, we could still afford to pay for Afrezza if we needed to. Medicare does not mean you are without resources. MC also mentioned a while ago that they had a pretty good success rate (~70%, but don't quote me on this number) on Medicare appeals. So, Medicare will cover it if people are willing/able to go through the hurdles. I know it is probably much more complicated than I am presenting, but the path is there. |
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Post by peppy on May 20, 2022 13:36:14 GMT -5
I do recall MNKD has some type of special pricing program for people on Medicare.
I would need to dig.
Not the 99 dollar a month deal MNKD had for a while,
A different plan people can apply for? a special afrezza pricing. Anyone recall?
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Post by robbmo on May 20, 2022 13:39:34 GMT -5
I do recall MNKD has some type of special pricing program for people on Medicare. I would need to dig. Not the 99 dollar a month deal MNKD had for a while, A different plan people can apply for? a special afrezza pricing. Anyone recall? They have a $35 Medicare pilot running through some Walgreens, in the South, I believe. |
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Post by sayhey24 on May 20, 2022 13:46:15 GMT -5
After thinking about the acquisition of V-GO.....it's a brilliant move. Right now MNKD has 5,000 Afrezza users which means he has tripled their customer base. MNKD spent $1,000 Dollars to get their name and address. What are the odds of Mike converting them over to Afrezza which will have higher margins. I would say pretty high! Also remember the patients are Type 2's on Medicare and probably already use a CGM. Awesome move. I believe Mike wanted to do this with ONE DROP but was unable to obtain their embedded database. Gee what ever happened to the developmental deal with ONE DROP? Casper - I sure hope you are right because I don't know if Mike has an opportunity to back out of this and get our $10M back. The first thing to remember is this is a T2 tool. I don't know if Dave Kendall had any thoughts on submitting for T1 approval but I would think if it could have been approved for T1s this would have already been done. Being a T2 tool for this to be prescribed the PWD is significantly out of control out of the gate or they have entered step 4 in the SoC. Just as a tool, if I was selling it I think its a tuff sell against Tresiba or the Omnipod. At this stage its also directly competing against afrezza. If I am selling afrezza as an insulin my job is to explain how to properly use and we should be able to eliminate the basal insulin. There I am competing directly against V-Go and I am either selling afrezza or V-Go and if I really believe in the benefits of afrezza I would never sell V-Go. I would want to replace it along with other pumps and basals like Tresiba. If I am viewing afrezza as a GLP1 replacement and I am selling into step 2 of the SoC the PWD should rarely progress to step 4. In that case I would have zero V-Go sales. The third problem is we now have 15 additional sales people who have zero understanding of afrezza. Afrezza is a paradigm shift in how to treat T2 diabetes. The problem is Dave Kendall never followed through and got it in the ADA SoC and neither did Sanofi. In both cases that was their mission. Until afrezza finds its proper place in the T2 SoC its relegated to the "RAA insulin" class which finds itself being prescribed after the basal or pump. If what Mike wanted was a mailing list for the 10k V-Go users, there are cheaper ways to get that. I can't see MNKD sales reps going door to door like the Fuller Brush man to V-Go users. We also know knocking on GP doors trying to sell afrezza has been an epic fail and will continue to be an epic fail until afrezza has its proper place in the SoC. I think the $10M would have been better spent doing an afrezza-Mounjaro trial to justify getting afrezza in the SoC. Mark my words Lilly will try and get a new "Class" defined in the ADA - GIP and have GIP be step 2 before the GLP1s and SGLT2s. I don't know if they will succeed but there will be an effort to do so. BTW - Medicare will pay for the CGM if the PWD is using afrezza. The thing is getting afrezza prescribed and paid for is the long pole since its not really in the T2 SoC and most of the T1's using it already have a CGM since they are all using some kind of basal. |
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Post by agedhippie on May 20, 2022 14:22:36 GMT -5
I keep coming back to the idea that i must be missing something because on the surface buying V-Go makes no sense. This is really a mechanical syringe rather than a pump as there is no variability in the device. It's sole benefit over a standard basal like Tresiba is that you can use it to handle meal time insulin by squiting extra insulin in, you don't need to inject separately. Once you use Afrezza that advantage goes away and there is only down side.
Possibly more useful than the device or patients may be access to the list of doctors prepared to prescribe this, and may be prepared to prescribe Afrezza.
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Post by peppy on May 20, 2022 14:26:09 GMT -5
I keep coming back to the idea that i must be missing something because on the surface buying V-Go makes no sense. This is really a mechanical syringe rather than a pump as there is no variability in the device. It's sole benefit over a standard basal like Tresiba is that you can use it to handle meal time insulin by squiting extra insulin in, you don't need to inject separately. Once you use Afrezza that advantage goes away and there is only down side. Possibly more useful than the device or patients may be access to the list of doctors prepared to prescribe this, and may be prepared to prescribe Afrezza. Mike and the team, have their name on a patent. mango do you recall the patent Mike C and was it Kendall have their name on? |
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Post by agedhippie on May 20, 2022 14:40:51 GMT -5
Mike and the team, have their name on a patent. mango do you recall the patent Mike C and was it Kendall have their name on? What is the patent for? |
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Post by peppy on May 20, 2022 14:44:09 GMT -5
Mike and the team, have their name on a patent. mango do you recall the patent Mike C and was it Kendall have their name on? What is the patent for? I can not recall. Mango posted it over a year ago. both Mike C and Kendall, it my have been a GLP-1. I can not recall. there were comments, it can probably be found on Mango's patent thread. mnkd.proboards.com/thread/8056/mnkd-patents |
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Post by Deleted on May 20, 2022 15:22:28 GMT -5
How can these medicare patients afford paying for Afrezza? Trippling the customer base doesn't help if we subsidize a majority of them. (Yes I'm being negative again but please explain why I'm wrong.) Do you think the V-GO Device plus Insulin is cheaper than Afrezza?? We don't know but I'm sure it's comparable. When you are getting 77% Profit Margins I'd say Medicare Patients will be able to afford it. There's elasticity in the price. The key is that MNKD paid $1,000 per patient which is a very low number to get a patient for life. |
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Post by sayhey24 on May 20, 2022 15:38:11 GMT -5
I keep coming back to the idea that i must be missing something because on the surface buying V-Go makes no sense. This is really a mechanical syringe rather than a pump as there is no variability in the device. It's sole benefit over a standard basal like Tresiba is that you can use it to handle meal time insulin by squiting extra insulin in, you don't need to inject separately. Once you use Afrezza that advantage goes away and there is only down side. Possibly more useful than the device or patients may be access to the list of doctors prepared to prescribe this, and may be prepared to prescribe Afrezza. You are not missing anything. This seems to be a bonehead asset acquisition costing $10M. This device competes head to head with afrezza in the SoC step 4 insulin space. If I was a sales rep I have no idea how I would sell this. I would think Tresiba or the Omnipod would be better. I also know that if I believed in the real benefits of afrezza as a sales rep I would be replacing V-Go with afrezza not coexisting. |
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