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Post by mssciguy on Nov 29, 2015 17:32:52 GMT -5
The Agreement also gave Sanofi rights to the manufacturing process. Sanofi may have been getting a plant ready to go for manufacturing Afrezza before taking Afrezza outside of the USA. Setting up a plant, plus their desire to utilize their own insulin in Afrezza, may be part of several reasons for the delay. Certainly the back-and-forth nature of negotiating over the final price & details of an acquisition could be another reason. Big pharma also likes to manufacture and distribute in redundant ways to get tax breaks, grease various regulators with local job incentives for the population served (or even a revolving door), even homeland security considerations (don't put all your eggs in one basket). Maybe half of those corporate jobs have nothing to do with the medicine itself... Looking forward to some communication, Matt, Al et al -- put the rumors and shorting to rest. It's repulsive to see talk (elsewhere) about "Shrekeli would know how to squeeze the shorts" but the fact remains that the tools are all there to get a decent valuation. A relatively small purchase would pay for itself many times over esp. for someone who already owns a nice position. I'm ready to hold for life if only there were some visibility.
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Post by suebeeee1 on Nov 29, 2015 17:33:38 GMT -5
All MNKD needs to do is to survive a few months, terminate their agreement for Sanofi stonewalling with no good will efforts to promote Afrezza, entry into negotiations with Novo or Pfizer (who comes with their own up front payment).
Sanofi knows this and will not delay.
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Post by factspls88 on Nov 29, 2015 17:51:51 GMT -5
All MNKD needs to do is to survive a few months, terminate their agreement for Sanofi stonewalling with no good will efforts to promote Afrezza, entry into negotiations with Novo or Pfizer (who comes with their own up front payment). Sanofi knows this and will not delay. I think this is totally unrealistic. Mannkind would be toast before they could barely begin to execute such a plan. And can you imagine the lawsuits under such a scenario?
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Post by EveningOfTheDay on Nov 29, 2015 17:54:19 GMT -5
Let's put it this way, I find hard to believe that Mannkind was in such a rush to sign an agreement that would have made such a long list of mistakes and give Sanofi the total control they have apparently given them. At this point, either the relationship is intact and their plan still stands, with perhaps minor variations, or the relationship is in serious trouble and we should expect a lot more trouble ahead. What I find most disturbing is Mannkinds unwillingness to shine some light on the whole matter. Is this because they can't per the agreement it self, or because the situation is desperate and they are forced to constantly play catch up.
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Post by biotec on Nov 29, 2015 18:17:27 GMT -5
All MNKD needs to do is to survive a few months, terminate their agreement for Sanofi stonewalling with no good will efforts to promote Afrezza, entry into negotiations with Novo or Pfizer (who comes with their own up front payment). Sanofi knows this and will not delay. What makes you think Novo or Pfizer would ever want to even think about Afrezza? A drug that's not selling? I think we got a bad deal with Sanofi because that's all we had for options. Don't sound like there was a war for the rights to sell and market Afrezza.
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Post by mssciguy on Nov 29, 2015 18:20:43 GMT -5
Let's put it this way, I find hard to believe that Mannkind was in such a rush to sign an agreement that would have made such a long list of mistakes and give Sanofi the total control they have apparently given them. At this point, either the relationship is intact and their plan still stands, with perhaps minor variations, or the relationship is in serious trouble and we should expect a lot more trouble ahead. What I find most disturbing is Mannkinds unwillingness to shine some light on the whole matter. Is this because they can't per the agreement it self, or because the situation is desperate and they are forced to constantly play catch up. If us po' retail folk flee, Goldman Sachs will get their $1 price target and Jason Karp will make a fortune on his puts. It's hard not to imagine some complicity here. Seriously. Any sane investor is having a "wtf" moment.
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Post by dreamboatcruise on Nov 29, 2015 18:21:03 GMT -5
Let's put it this way, I find hard to believe that Mannkind was in such a rush to sign an agreement that would have made such a long list of mistakes and give Sanofi the total control they have apparently given them. At this point, either the relationship is intact and their plan still stands, with perhaps minor variations, or the relationship is in serious trouble and we should expect a lot more trouble ahead. What I find most disturbing is Mannkinds unwillingness to shine some light on the whole matter. Is this because they can't per the agreement it self, or because the situation is desperate and they are forced to constantly play catch up. One paper the decisions are at least first put before a 50/50 board, granted with Sanofi having veto power in a dispute resolution process. I have not looked at other similar deals where a BP licenses a biotech drug. Do they usually give the smaller biotech partner more control? The Sanofi deal actually doesn't strike me as something strange, though the market roll out of Afrezza has surprised me, in a disappointing way. I find it hard to believe a biotech would have the final say in what the BP does with regard to marketing/sales. MNKD does have the right to cancel the relationship if they can make the claim that SNY is not performing. That is about all I would expect in a deal like this. Granted the financial terms of the deal and subsequent slow sales of Afrezza have left MNKD possible not strong enough to exercise their right to walk away even if they wanted to.
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Post by stevil on Nov 29, 2015 18:30:53 GMT -5
But what if liquidation isn't one of the cards in Al's hand and SNY knows it? That is a possibility I didn't consider I think it crazy that a man would spend his whole life accumulating wealth only to lose it all in the last 15 years of his life... But I guess he's the kind of guy who would... he's already willed the great majority of his estate to charity. I'm with you guys in my heart. I just hope more comes to light that allows my head to follow...
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Post by bioexec25 on Nov 29, 2015 18:32:02 GMT -5
Yep usually the smaller biotech does not have much to say about the commercialization tactics. In fact, as was the case a few times I recall we filed initial lawsuit papers and subsequently and somewhat automagically the BP responded with more effort versus entering into litigation that they knew would likely show they were negligent in honoring even the spirit of the original contract. Biotech executing a termination or non-renewal is a little more complicated, not the least of which there is simply not much precedence of success. I can't think of one albeit I'm sure there are some nonetheless. But Afrezza is certainly unique in so many ways and none of us no who if anyone has been watching this and may be ready to enter the fray if and when things begin to unravel between Sny and Mnkd.
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Post by dreamboatcruise on Nov 29, 2015 18:40:12 GMT -5
bioexec25... interesting perspective. I would not have guessed that moving on a lawsuit would end well. I would have assumed that such a move would be so damaging to the partnership as to make things worse. Well I hope if Al is displeased with their actions (and of course I have no idea whether SNY is invoking their veto or things are going as mutually agreed by the oversight board), that he has the fight still in him to get the change he wants.
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Post by bioexec25 on Nov 29, 2015 18:50:15 GMT -5
Yes it is somewhat counter intuitive. Of course good agreements make long friends, but in this day of pharma with large legal departments, they push the envelope constantly and many times unless the company with less leverage is willing to go public with a lawsuit, the big fish just figures they rule the day and do as they please. I'm not suggesting this is the case, many of you all follow this contract much closer than I, but it's just another perspective.
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Post by rvc on Nov 29, 2015 19:34:53 GMT -5
Probably the most realistic assessment of the current predicament that I have read
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Post by gamblerjag on Nov 29, 2015 19:38:29 GMT -5
Hey Subeee.. The problem with that is.. we don't know.. if SNY has been not making a realistic attempt to get this off the ground. They have ads out. They are increasing. There are television /news promos out.. I'm not saying that SNY might not anti up.. I just don't think if they do anti up it's because they know there is a case against them. Also, if that the case and SNY's knows that other BP's will want in... why even try to sweep Afrezza under the rug in the first place? They know that if MNKD gets other offers they would have to match it or they lose out. I'm still not buying that SNY is trying to destroy Afrezza. GL
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Post by EveningOfTheDay on Nov 29, 2015 20:18:35 GMT -5
I tend to agree, but the implications of that are rather troublesome. If Sanofi has been following the agreed upon plan, and Mannkind, as Matt has mentioned a few times, does not see any evidence of Sanofi's lack of commitment, there is a real chance we are just facing reality and that this reality is not going to change any time soon, as opposed to any expectations we all might have had in the past. Without a clear plan to solve the financial situation of Mannkind we do not have a future, so I hope the company will stop the evasiveness and mutism it has maintained up until now and will inform us soon of what the real circumstances are.
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Post by doodyfree on Nov 29, 2015 20:52:07 GMT -5
You guys are *** depressing. Good bye, i'm going to binge eat and drown my sorrow with a massive food coma.
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