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Post by agedhippie on Dec 12, 2022 12:30:21 GMT -5
... Is the GLP1 slowing down the "bad" insulin but letting more "good" insulin being released by the pancreas - that's a theory. ... The problem at hand is MNKD does not know how to market afrezza. Its insulin. Mealtime insulin is the last step in the ADA step program. If MNKD can just add a pinch of TS GLP1 to the afrezza in the same cartridge can it now be sold as a GLP1 combo and fit into the existing ADA step program and become step 2? ... The good and bad insulin needs more explanation. Given that insulin is insulin (there is no intrinsic difference between insulin from a T2 and non-T2) it's terminology I would avoid unless there is a molecular difference you can point to. Otherwise you are going to lose a lot of people who cannot get past the good/bad insulin statement. I think it's quite possible to include GLP-1 with insulin and market it as an intermediate step between 2 and 3. There would have to be trials between the mix and pure Afrezza to show that there is a benefit. In fact add Mounjaro as one of the arms so you have the control insulin, Afrezza, the control GLP-1/GIP, Mounjaro, and the GLP-1 insulin combination - kill two birds with one stone  |
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Post by sayhey24 on Dec 12, 2022 13:40:38 GMT -5
It appears from some of the covid research we are seeing 3 basic states of the beta cell after covid. One appears to be an infected state which is producing "something". It appears to be a viral insulin - what I called the "bad" insulin. This bad insulin appears to be a root cause of "resistance". If the theory is correct then we want to limit all "the stuff" the pancreas is releasing. We will see over time if this is correct but we can see the infected beta cells. We also know if we stop the spike with afrezza before the pancreas releases "its stuff" we need a lot less afrezza.
What we have been seeing is people combining afrezza with GLP1s need less insulin. However, this is being reported by T1s on a GLP1 and afrezza and a basal like Tresiba. They are using a lot less of the basal after starting on the GLP1s. They still seem to use the same amount of afrezza.
IDK but it would be really crazy if combining the GLP1 with afrezza finally finds a marketing approach which will sell afrezza. We will see. Hopefully all this GLP1 stuff discussion is not a lot of bloviating on a message board and MNKD can actually take some positive action on it. What we do know is they did follow-up with the patent which is a positive step.
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Post by bthomas55ep on Dec 12, 2022 18:37:48 GMT -5
Sorry if this was already answered. Do we have a sense of whether or not the update to the GLP Patent appeared to be new information or was the update some required routine maintenance filing (e.g. a filing fee, etc)? I guess I didn't understand if the consensus was the thinking is that Mannkind was preparing to take a step with GLP? Thx
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Post by peppy on Dec 12, 2022 19:29:42 GMT -5
Sorry if this was already answered. Do we have a sense of whether or not the update to the GLP Patent appeared to be new information or was the update some required routine maintenance filing (e.g. a filing fee, etc)? I guess I didn't understand if the consensus was the thinking is that Mannkind was preparing to take a step with GLP? Thx Castagna on the patent. oldfishtowner said GLP included.  |
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Post by agedhippie on Dec 12, 2022 19:48:41 GMT -5
... What we have been seeing is people combining afrezza with GLP1s need less insulin. However, this is being reported by T1s on a GLP1 and afrezza and a basal like Tresiba. They are using a lot less of the basal after starting on the GLP1s. They still seem to use the same amount of afrezza. ... GLP-1 reduces your insulin requirement as it acts on multiple pathways. When my endo prescribed it for me he told me to reduce my basal and bolus insulin accordingly. I never took it, but other people I knew did and it reduced their insulin requirements. They didn't see any significant reduction in their A1c, but it did improve their TIR. |
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Post by mango on May 12, 2023 15:08:39 GMT -5
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Post by porkini on May 12, 2023 15:19:16 GMT -5
I just quickly skimmed, from the Claims info and the end Patent History, it appears it may be just a reassignment of the V-Go patent to Mannkind ownership? |
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Post by radgray68 on May 12, 2023 15:33:15 GMT -5
I just quickly skimmed, from the Claims info and the end Patent History, it appears it may be just a reassignment of the V-Go patent to Mannkind ownership? It also references GLP-1 a lot in the patent reference section. Looks like some somebodys here are going to be happy if we repurposed V-GO to deliver it. |
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Post by Clement on May 14, 2023 18:59:55 GMT -5
Curious. The VGO product which is sold now commercially is spring actuated, not hydraulic. |
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Post by porkini on May 14, 2023 20:43:28 GMT -5
Curious. The VGO product which is sold now commercially is spring actuated, not hydraulic. You might want to review my post, there is indication of "hydraulicity" on the V-Go ( mnkd.proboards.com/post/248816/thread). |
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Post by hellodolly on May 15, 2023 5:22:08 GMT -5
Save time, Porkini's reference:
"Like an NTSB crash investigator, this time, I was able to piece it all back together. The V-Go features an industrial-strength 6-inch dual spring that is forced into a one-and-a-half inch cavity in the pod. This creates pressure on a reservoir of liquid silicone-like fluid. The plunger that drives the insulin is pushed, not by a traditional push rod, but by this fluid. The flow of basal insulin seems to be controlled by the diameter of the delivery needle itself, which pierces the top of the insulin cartridge at the same moment it’s inserted into the skin.
In a nutshell, the system is more hydraulic than mechanical. It functions on fluid dynamics. It’s simple. Somewhat elegant. And for many type 2s, it may prove to be just what the doctor ordered. Literally and figuratively."
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Post by Clement on May 15, 2023 9:58:50 GMT -5
Save time, Porkini's reference: "Like an NTSB crash investigator, this time, I was able to piece it all back together. The V-Go features an industrial-strength 6-inch dual spring that is forced into a one-and-a-half inch cavity in the pod. This creates pressure on a reservoir of liquid silicone-like fluid. The plunger that drives the insulin is pushed, not by a traditional push rod, but by this fluid. The flow of basal insulin seems to be controlled by the diameter of the delivery needle itself, which pierces the top of the insulin cartridge at the same moment it’s inserted into the skin. In a nutshell, the system is more hydraulic than mechanical. It functions on fluid dynamics. It’s simple. Somewhat elegant. And for many type 2s, it may prove to be just what the doctor ordered. Literally and figuratively." Thank you. Very interesting. Floating-piston transfer cylinders and restrictors have been in public domain for several decades. |
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Post by agedhippie on May 15, 2023 10:24:52 GMT -5
Thank you. Very interesting. Floating-piston transfer cylinders and restrictors have been in public domain for several decades. You can patent anything provided it's not obviously flawed, but it will get overturned if it matters (mostly nobody cares so they skate by.) However, a bad patent has it's use as it enables you to delay your competitor by continually appealing the judgement overturning the patent and so delaying your competitor. Companies build arsenals of patents for exactly this reason, they don't need to ultimately be valid, they just need to burn time. The UTHR case against LQDA is a fine example of this. |
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Post by Clement on May 15, 2023 10:35:49 GMT -5
Thank you. Very interesting. Floating-piston transfer cylinders and restrictors have been in public domain for several decades. You can patent anything provided it's not obviously flawed, but it will get overturned if it matters (mostly nobody cares so they skate by.) However, a bad patent has it's use as it enables you to delay your competitor by continually appealing the judgement overturning the patent and so delaying your competitor. Companies build arsenals of patents for exactly this reason, they don't need to ultimately be valid, they just need to burn time. The UTHR case against LQDA is a fine example of this. I have never written a patent but I thought there was supposed to be something "novel" about it. But thanks for reminding me about the reality of the situation. The design of VGO is pretty. But it also looks like something that, on a larger scale, Uncle Joe and his dog Bucky would assemble for one of the oil company research labs. Figure 1 www.mdpi.com/2226-4787/8/4/215 |
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Post by agedhippie on May 15, 2023 13:16:18 GMT -5
I have never written a patent but I thought there was supposed to be something "novel" about it. But thanks for reminding me about the reality of the situation. The design of VGO is pretty. But it also looks like something that, on a larger scale, Uncle Joe and his dog Bucky would assemble for one of the oil company research labs. Figure 1 www.mdpi.com/2226-4787/8/4/215It's novel until it's challenged. I have a couple of patents in my name, only one of which I think could withstand scrutiny, but that's what the customer wanted... |
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